The following is a conversation between Joan Steinberg, the President of the Morgan Stanley Foundation, and Denver Frederick, the Host of The Business of Giving.
Denver: For over six decades, the Morgan Stanley Foundation has committed to serving those in need, with a focus on children’s health. They give back to the communities where their people live and work through long-lasting partnerships, community-based delivery, and engaging their best asset, Morgan Stanley employees.
And here to update us on a number of their current initiatives is Joan Steinberg, the President of the Morgan Stanley Foundation and their Global Head of Philanthropy.
Welcome to The Business of Giving, Joan.
Joan Steinberg, the President of the Morgan Stanley Foundation
Joan: Thank you for having me.
Denver: You pretty recently commemorated the 60th anniversary of the Foundation. Share with listeners some of its history.
Joan: Okay. So first of all, I was not here for all 60 years. I want to establish that up front. Yeah, so the Foundation was founded in 1961… so we’re pretty old for a corporate foundation. I think in the beginning, it was a very traditional corporate program, grants to local places. But really over the last 20, 30 years, there’s been a concentrated effort on children’s health and what can we do to really make a difference for young kids in the communities where our employees are, and I think that that does distinguish us.
Denver: Mm-hmm. I think I first heard of Morgan Stanley’s focus on children’s health when I was up in NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital. Tell us a little bit about the babies’ and children’s hospital and maybe your more recent efforts up there.
Joan: Yeah. So New York Presbyterian is a conglomerate of a bunch of other hospitals that were in New York. I think it’s the largest employer in New York City, it’s so large. And really, our relationship started in 1973. Our former president, Bob Baldwin, was asked to serve on the board of the institution, and that’s when it began. We’ve steadily had a board member there since. But in the 1990s, a group of our employees got involved and helped to fund some revamping of the pediatric ICU unit.
It was a great experience. The new space was beautiful. Really lived up to the medical care you could get there. And one of our executives was looking out the window, and the head doctor said, “What do you see?” And our executive said, “I see a parking lot.” And the head doctor said, “I see the Morgan Stanley Children’s Hospital,” and that’s literally where it started. And ultimately, really due to our employees, we raised 60-something million dollars to help build a self-standing institution.
Yes, the Foundation and the firm gave, but employees gave $45 million, personally. This was the late ’90s, and I think it was really a time when the industry was doing great. And I think there was a real sense that we could do something important for our headquarter city. And so I’m proud to say that the building opened in 2003 and obviously is one of the best children’s hospitals in the country at this point.
Denver: No question about it. That’s a great story. Well, your support of children doesn’t stop at the hospital doors and I think it was maybe a little over two years ago that you launched the Morgan Stanley Alliance for Children’s Mental Health. Boy, what an important initiative that is! And it can only be described as even more important in the midst of this mental health crisis that we’re going through right now. Tell us a little bit about the Alliance.
Joan: Yeah. So again, we were in 2018, ’19, looking for what the next phase should be as we looked at children’s health, and there were a couple things that really stuck out to us. But the single sort of stat that hit us all on this… by us, I mean on my board, was that suicide is now the leading killer and cause of death in children 10 and above.
And the idea that something that is preventable is causing that much death and despair.
It really helped us focus on the idea that we need to extend the definition of children’s health from the physical to include the mental, which is of course a physical ailment as well. And that’s kind of what got us started down the road. But when we started investigating, what’s really going on… and this is pre-COVID, it became really obvious how underfunded this area is and how significant.
So 20% of kids will have a depression or anxiety-related disorder. Two-thirds of them will not get the care they need. And so for us, this was a great opportunity to think about, Okay, what could we do in this space? And that’s where the Alliance came from. We had no idea how prescient we were, but we launched February 3rd of 2020.
Denver: Wow.
Joan: And I would’ve told you then that we were dealing with epidemic-sized numbers, that we were dealing with a crisis, and then you add COVID and what that did, and you can really see the state we’re in. Despite our being involved and others joining us, there’s no way you could say that the funding is there. I mean, I’m sure you already know these stats, but despite affecting 20% of kids, philanthropic funding, about 1.3% of philanthropic funding actually goes to mental health causes. That’s a huge mismatch.
Denver: Yeah. It’s a place you can really make a difference. Well, speaking of COVID, has children’s mental health been more impacted than that of adults?
Joan: I’m going to say they’ve both gotten… it’s not good for anyone. I think it’s acute in the children and for lots of reasons. Particularly let’s look at teens and young adults. They’re at a point in their lives… think about COVID, think about the lockdowns, think about the separation, of the loneliness.
They were at a critical point in their lives when those social relationships were really critical to their development. They’re separating from their parents and learning their own independence. That got messed up. They lost rites of passage, so their proms and their graduations and their first days of college, all these things happen to them at an age when they don’t have the same coping skills that you or I have.
So I do think it was harder on kids to be able to get through. And particularly that age, that sort of a high school- into college age when they’re also the most at risk for some of these negative behaviors. So that’s a real tough thing to get through. And again, they don’t have life experience to tell them it gets better. They just know what it feels like right then.
Denver: Yeah. Let me circle back a little bit because this is a bit of an atypical focus area for a corporate foundation to take on. Share with us a little bit of the thinking that went into that as you made the decision to make this a high priority area.
Joan: So I’ve already shared with you why we thought the cause itself was worth doing it. We had looked at the funding, looking for gaps, like where could we fill in, and found this giant blank space. So it was really clear to us that the funding was needed. But I think we also looked at ourselves and said we’re not who you expect, and that’s exactly right because stigma is still a part of the mental health problem. It’s not the only thing.
And I don’t want to overpaint it, but we felt like having a firm like Morgan Stanley out just talking about this, raising the topic, raising awareness, bringing our employees, our clients, our constituency to the table around it, was itself an act that we could do that would raise the profile of what’s happening. And we thought we were a unique voice because if Morgan Stanley can talk about it, so can you.
Denver: That’s a great point. Well, you are an alliance, so share with us who some of your partners are.
Joan: Yeah. So it’s a global alliance. There’s around seven partners. They range from medical institutions and research organizations to groups like The Jed Foundation and Child Mind Institute that actually provide clinical care. And we also have a group called The Steve Fund, which I highly recommend people take a look at.
It was really a capacity building grant that we gave them, but their entire focus is on the mental health of young people of color, and it is not the same. And so the research they’ve done and the programs they deliver can really nuance the services to ensure success within all ethnic groups.
Denver: Mm-hmm. And one of the aspects of this program is the Mental Health Innovation Awards.
Joan: When we were researching what we could fund… and we wanted to take really proven methods and get them to scale, that’s what our concentration was. But we kept finding these little pockets of interesting programming and great ideas, but maybe they were too local, or maybe they were only in one market, and they weren’t quite ready for scale.
And so we used the Innovation Awards to kind of get those opportunities. It’s a prize initiative. It’s an RFP, and we are pretty open to what people can send us, but ultimately, we’re looking for innovation in the field of children’s mental health. Something that is replicable that we can give seed funding to, to kind of prove the model and hopefully bring other funders in to kind of take it to scale.
So we had our first class come through, and we identified five organizations. Each received a hundred thousand dollars. But just as equally important, they also received a series of sort of trainings in a cohort, again, around this idea of scale. So they learned about fundraising. They learned about marketing. They learned about strategic planning, all to help them think about their future, not to fund where they are now, but to kind of get them to the next level.
We did a lot of work to try to expose them to other funders. We had a showcase. We helped them create videos. We’re trying to share that with, again, clients, our constituency. And we just completed Round 2’s application process. I don’t know who won. We’re still in the middle of it. We’re still evaluating 600 applications. Don’t ask!
But in the last two years, we’ve received close to 1,500 applications for this program. I think that tells you what’s going on out there and what the need is, and how underfunded the space is. So anyone wants to join us in funding these, come call me. We would love the help.
Denver: Well, it’s wonderful how you’re helping them build their capacity and look at the long term and just not today. Well, let’s talk about your fellow funders. I mean, if any of them showed let’s say a little interest, what are some of the things that you would tell them that they could do?
Joan: I think what I would say to other funders, particularly corporate funders, this isn’t a huge space for corporate funders. If you’re an education funder, if you’re a criminal justice funder, I would ask you to think about what percentage of your giving you could think about the mental health implication.
So if you’re an education funder and you’re worried about dropping out, well, mental health problems cause a lot of dropouts in education. Maybe, again, you’re not going to change your entire focus, but maybe you could carve out five, 10% of your funding and think about the mental health implications.
Criminal justice, we know that we tend to criminalize young people’s mental health disorders, particularly if they’re young people of color. So instead of just looking at kind of juvenile delinquency programs or criminality, what were the services those young people could use to get out of that cycle? What are our opportunities to do that again? You may still want to do your program, but is there a carveout?
And then I would just say, particularly again for employers, these are not isolated things that happen in some other community and don’t affect your employees. So there was a study done, I believe it’s by Nationwide Children’s Hospital, that found that more than 50% of workers say that they’ve missed time because of dealing with their children’s mental health programs.
So it’s not just a place to fund, but is your HR team offering the right services for your employees? This does actually affect everybody. Again, this isn’t a poverty thing. This isn’t a race thing. Everybody is equally eligible to have a mental health illness, but not everybody is equally eligible to get care for it. So, how can you think about that?
Denver: I see your point. I mean, mental health is not a silo. It’s really integrated into so many of society’s problems that you can very easily stay in your area of interest and still be doing something to promote mental health while promoting your area.
Joan: Exactly. Exactly.
Denver: You guys stepped up in a big way during COVID. Tell us about some of the things that Morgan Stanley and your folks did.
Joan: I have to give a little pat on the back that this is what we do. We try to really respond to our communities. So over the year and a half when COVID was the most sort of locked down, if you will, and the pre vaccines, we were able to contribute about $30 million on a global level towards COVID causes. Everything from beefing up food delivery systems to be able to help people… as you know, food insecurity rates almost doubled during this. So we looked at things like that.
We looked at providing healthcare to people in communities where maybe they couldn’t get it, so whether that was across Europe or in the United States. We also really tried to get at low-wage earners who were very often the most subjected to illness, but couldn’t afford to miss work. Where the quote-unquote, “essential workers” who had to work through this whole thing.
And so we partnered with other organizations on the Families and Workers Fund, for instance, in identifying pockets of workers who really were struggling, so whether they were in the hospitality industry, meat packers, migrant farmers. One example I remember of a grant was a group of migrant farmers who got paid by the day. I think they actually got paid by either hourly or by the bushels that they were delivering.
And if they got sick, they literally couldn’t afford to be sick for two weeks and to isolate and quarantine. So they were still trying to come sick because their families couldn’t afford that loss of income. And the grant was to actually be able to sustain them so that they could quarantine and so that it wouldn’t spread.
And these are the kinds of groups that like when you thought COVID that most of us thought about, “Oh my God, I’m locked in my house with my husband and my kid, this is terrible.” But then you hear stories like that where you’re so close to the poverty line that you literally can’t take care of yourself and protect yourself because you have to work, that’s really where we tried to target.
And the one other example I would share, and it’s a New York City example where we’re headquartered, but we had two vendors… they sell coffee outside our building, Angelo and Edith. Everyone knows them, if you work here. They’ve been here for decades. We all buy our coffee from them. And our employees got really worried about what happened to them, because if we are not in the office, what’s happening to them?
And employees had gotten in touch with them. People actually did a GoFundMe, and we’re supporting them, but it made us question what happens across the city with street vendors. So we partnered with the Robin Hood Foundation and actually did a street vendor project to, literally, just put cash in the hands of street vendors to sustain them because most of them lost two, three-quarters, 80% of their audience who were buying their products disappeared overnight. And they’re not people who have huge savings.
And so that’s just an example. We ultimately helped 2,000 vendors across the city. And now, as we’re returning to work and people are coming back, they can bring back their livelihood, hopefully. And Edith and Angelo are just fine, for those worried about them. They’re here, they’re here every morning. We see them still.
“So most of the problems we’re trying to solve are around scale, whether: Should we take on this different area of focus and delivery of new services? Should we maybe have a fee-based system within our organization to create revenues to grow ourselves? Or geographically, do we move to this location or that location? And if we do: What’s the model? So those are things that a lot of nonprofits, particularly smaller ones, they won’t have staff on board who can do all of that analysis, and that’s really what our teams bring.“
Denver: Well, those are two really nice stories, and it goes to show you sometimes that philanthropy can sometimes get too fancy by half.
Joan: Right.
Denver: And some of the simple, practical things, and really just leaving the building, going outside and observing, you can really come up with some solutions that really change an individual’s life. So those are two wonderful stories.
Well, you said or I said at the very outset that your best asset was your employees. So tell us a little bit about them and what they do to carry out the firm’s mission of giving back.
Joan: So we designed all of our programs with the hope that our employees would engage, right? That’s a huge part of it for us. And in non-COVID years, this volunteering is obviously harder during COVID. Well, we get above 90% of our employees to do at least one of our programs. So we’re pretty successful in it. I think the one example that I’d share though that really tells the story: we think our employees are the smartest people in the world. That’s why we hired them.
And we’re running something called the Strategy Challenge and it’s about their smarts, and we put our employees together on teams, about four different people. They come from different divisions so that they can reflect different skill sets. And we give them a 10-week assignment with a nonprofit to create a strategic plan for that nonprofit around a very specific question.
It’s not that long a time, and they are working full time while this is happening, but what they deliver is a full strategic plan with all of the components, whether that’s financial models or marketing plans or cost analysis. And really those problems are around scale. And as you know, someone who’s involved in giving, you’re well aware that nonprofits struggle with scale.
Great idea, great program, but it’s not so easy to all of a sudden deliver it. So most of the problems we’re trying to solve are around scale, whether: Should we take on this different area of focus and delivery of new services? Should we maybe have a fee-based system within our organization to create revenues to grow ourselves? Or geographically, do we move to this location or that location? And if we do: What’s the model?
So those are things that a lot of nonprofits, particularly smaller ones, they won’t have staff on board who can do all of that analysis, and that’s really what our teams bring. And I think for our teams, it’s a great experience for them to practice skill sets. They get to manage the client. They do get a lot of help. We have very senior leaders who act as advisors. We partner with Bridgespan to make sure that the projects are going to deliver impact.
But it’s a great experience for them. Many of them go on to join the boards of the organizations they were involved in, or at least other boards. And it’s a great opportunity for their own skillset development. They’re going to learn client relationships. They’re going to learn public presentations, strategic planning, so all things that we think are important for their careers here as well. So just a good example of kind of taking your top talent and really driving change, both for them and for the community.
Denver: Yeah. And not enough nonprofits take advantage of skill-based volunteering. You talk to a lot of them, and they’ll say, “Hey, the rec room needs to be painted.”
Joan: Yeah.
Denver: But you’re missing a big-time opportunity.
Joan: Yeah. And it’s hard, listen, it’s hard for that nonprofit because you have to invest the time. The senior staff have to be engaged and have to put their energy into it, or they’re not going to get what they want out of it. And I understand for the busy manager of a nonprofit, there’s days that that just doesn’t feel possible, but it is worth it.
Denver: Yeah, absolutely. It’s something which everybody intends to do, they put it off; and next month after we get through this, and next month never comes. You also have a Global Volunteer Month, right?
Joan: Yes, we do, and this was a hard year, but yes. And so we asked our employees over a month’s timeframe to at least give one hour to their communities. Obviously, many of our employees do that anyway, but that month is really more about us doing it as teams. And we try to plan as many projects as possible where you’re out of the office, you’re with your coworkers, and you’re out in your community.
So sometimes they’re super impactful, and they’re pro bono efforts, and we’re involved in something more serious. And sometimes we’re digging ditches and planting trees and painting fences, too. But it’s really a reminder to our employees that there’s a bigger world around them, and that hopefully it’s a jumping off point for them to get more involved. We try to introduce employees to new organizations and new causes each time, and hope that they will jump on board and continue this year round.
“…I would just say: internally, we’re always interested in having our employees engage and be more engaged, both with each other and of course with the firm. And so we do know from doing our own surveying that the employees who are engaged with us actually feel better about working for the firm. They’re prouder to work there. They’re more likely to stay. So all the sort of HR bells and whistles that you would want, we’ve been able to prove over time a consistent correlation.”
Denver: Yeah. And employees are much more engaged when the company, when they see them doing things like this. It’s a great recruitment tool and in addition to all the other good that it does.
So how do you think about impact? We’ve only touched on a couple of your programs, the mental health and the volunteers and COVID and stuff. How do you think about that in terms of seeing the difference that you’re making?
Joan: Yeah. So let’s talk external to the firm first, and then I can share a couple internal to the firm. I think external to the firm, most of our bigger grants are multi-year commitments, and we spend a lot of time in building into those proposals what the impact’s going to be. So if you think about the mental health program, I shared with you, my goal was to create scale. So we built into those programs, like, How are we going to take what they’re doing and get them bigger?
So just as an example, with the children’s mental health program, we’re now in going into year four, and we’ve reached 11 million children and their families. So again, scale was really important to us and yes, COVID helped in the sense that more people were focused on this. And we were trying to build opportunities for people to learn more.
But then I would also say it’s who we’re helping that we pay a lot of attention to. So it’s not just unlimited number of people checking the box. We really wanted to target lower income families. So if you look at the JED Campus program, we wanted to expand that to more schools. We actually scholarship schools that couldn’t traditionally afford to get that kind of consulting service so that low-income students would have more access.
If you look at our grant to Child Mind Institute, it was on creating a better parenting tool, digital resources for parents. But we made sure that all the information was translated into Spanish, and that it was being marketed to low-income Spanish communities to ensure that everyone was having access to the information that was being prepared. I’m proud to say and particularly because of COVID, we’re over a million families already. We had hoped to get to 600,000, so…
Denver: You made it.
Joan: Yeah. One blessing of COVID. Do need to say, I’m very worried that COVID ends and people kind of put the blinders on, but let’s hope. And then I would just say internally, we’re always interested in having our employees engage and be more engaged, both with each other and of course with the firm.
And so we do know from doing our own surveying that the employees who are engaged with us actually feel better about working for the firm. They’re prouder to work there. They’re more likely to stay. So all the sort of HR bells and whistles that you would want, we’ve been able to prove over time a consistent correlation.
“We’ve had toolkits for returning to school that people can bring to their schools to help you work with the educators on social-emotional learning that might need to come around some of the COVID issues. So there’s stuff like that that we’ve done that I think vastly increases the impact we’re having beyond our grants. It’s new for us, but it’s a really interesting space to try to be in. And again, this isn’t about us touting our own story. It’s really about: What’s the conversation you should be having so people understand what’s going on with children’s mental health?”
Denver: Mm-hmm. Is there anything that you’ve done over the past several years, Joan, that you might say constitutes a new best practice when it comes to how you go about your philanthropy, a more effective way of doing it, a more thoughtful way of doing it?
Joan: I’m going to answer that again on the mental health front, but something we hadn’t always done was use our voice as well as we could around an issue. I think we’re a conservative company sometimes, and with the mental health program, it was an opportunity, like, let’s just see what happens when we try to be a thought leader.
And that term gets used a lot, but I meant this literally in the sense of putting out information and driving conversation around things that are different for us. And I think it really worked, and I think it’s a great opportunity for us to say, “Okay, how do we increase the impact of what we’re doing by this means?”
And what I mean by that is, we’ve put out like 30 white papers already on children’s mental health topics that are not traditional Morgan Stanley research. They’re not on the economics of children’s mental health. They’re actually on things like: How’s that device in your kid’s hand affecting them? Or we’re working now on what are the nuances of stigma that are actually causing the most damage? So things that can really affect kids’ lives.
And then we’re creating convenings, bringing the right people to the table, driving conversation, creating tools. We’ve had toolkits for returning to school that people can bring to their schools to help you work with the educators on social-emotional learning that might need to come around some of the COVID issues.
So there’s stuff like that that we’ve done that I think vastly increases the impact we’re having beyond our grants. It’s new for us, but it’s a really interesting space to try to be in. And again, this isn’t about us touting our own story. It’s really about: What’s the conversation you should be having so people understand what’s going on with children’s mental health?
Denver: Yeah. You’re getting out there a lot more than companies ever do because they just… you should run for the hills…
Joan: Yeah. I would’ve run for the hills.
Denver: You understand this field as well as anyone, and we have a lot of nonprofits that listen to this organization. So I don’t want to have a nonprofit approaching Morgan Stanley per se, but generally speaking, if you had a word of advice for nonprofits as they’re looking for corporate support, what would you maybe tell them to think about more carefully?
Joan: Well, definitely understand that we are deluged with requests, so you want to break through kind of the noise. And I think a little homework on what we actually fund. I really encourage folks who are involved in mental health programs to look at our Innovation Awards because we are accepting RFPs again. We’re going to reopen it next spring… you’ve got to wait a little bit. But when you see those kinds of RFPs and open opportunities, take advantage of them.
But if we’re out there and there’s… so for instance, for Strategy Challenge or Innovation Awards, we do webinars to explain what we’re looking for. Go to those webinars and listen. Listen, I was a professional fundraiser and I mean, one of the things I see all the time is people kind of throwing spaghetti at the wall. Be a little more tailored because we are overwhelmed, and we’re looking for excuses to say no.
Denver: Yeah.
Joan: Don’t give us those excuses. Think about what we’re concentrating on and hand me something that’s right up my alley. Use who you know, so if you are already engaged with my employees, use the employee to get to me because I will pay attention to my own employees more than I will pay attention to the ether. And don’t waste your time when you know you don’t fit.
Denver: Yeah.
Joan: So if you’re reading up guidelines and you know you don’t fit, please don’t take the time to write a proposal and to send it to me because it’s going to be really easy for me to decline you.
“I think COVID pulled back the curtain on fundamental truths that were always true in our communities, whether it’s the disparities between Black and Brown communities and White communities in terms of healthcare and education and wealth, right? All of that. The mental health issues that it uncovered.
So my hope… and it’s a big hope… is that now that they’re uncovered, people don’t just blow it off, that we recognize that these exist. And we now take our opportunity to try to right some of these wrongs and really concentrate in the right places.”
Denver: Mm-hmm. Oh, that’s great universal advice for any company that somebody would be thinking of approaching.
Finally, Joan, how do you believe these extraordinary events of the last two or three years will shape philanthropy and corporate giving over the course of the next decade?
Joan: I’m going to say, with the fingers crossed here, that I hope this: I think COVID pulled back the curtain on fundamental truths that were always true in our communities, whether it’s the disparities between Black and Brown communities and White communities in terms of healthcare and education and wealth, right? All of that. The mental health issues that it uncovered.
So my hope… and it’s a big hope… is that now that they’re uncovered, people don’t just blow it off, that we recognize that these exist. And we now take our opportunity to try to right some of these wrongs and really concentrate in the right places.
I am really focused right this minute on what inflation means for those same communities because when I look at the working poor in our country, I recognize that they may not have had the wage growth that some of the other industries have had. And it’s that $400 emergency fund, is that number we use a lot in the States, it dipped a lot during COVID. It’s growing again.
So if you have 30%, 40% of people in this country who only have a $400 cushion, and now milk costs more, and gas costs more, and baby formula, if you can find it, costs more, I’m looking at that $400 disappearing very quickly.
And so while there is financial issues around inflation that have to be dealt with, and companies like ours are paying attention to it on that sort of macro level, I’m looking at what this means for our communities. There’s already longer lines at food banks that whether we’re technically in a recession or not, for those within a few decimal points of poverty line, they’re already feeling it.
And so how do we take the lessons we learned from COVID and get surgical in how we’re helping because those folks are definitely starting to get hit already. And we know they’re going to lag us on recovery. So how do we prepare for that this minute? Because it’s already here.
Denver: Yeah. I share your hope and I also share your concern. We have this snapback phenomena.
Joan: Yeah. Yeah, we’re good. We’re over…
Denver: Everything is good, I’m aware, I’m conscious, I’m there, I’m present, and then a year or two from now, I’m back to where I was. And God forbid if that happens!
Joan: Yeah. Particularly with COVID where everyone is so anxious for COVID to be over. I don’t want that to include: “ and I’m going to forget everything I learned during COVID.”
Denver: Yeah, absolutely. That’s a great finishing line.
Hey, if people want to learn more about the Morgan Stanley Foundation, but particularly more about the Morgan Stanley Alliance for Children’s Mental Health, tell us about where they can go and pick up that information.
Joan: Please, it’s all on our morganstanley.com website. If you go to About Us, you can read all of our giving programs, including all of the stuff we’ve done under the mental health banner, our white papers, our articles, they’re all there. So you can get all of our research; it’s free to the public.
Denver: Well, great stuff. And thank you, Joan, so much for being here today. It was an absolute delight to have you on the show.
Joan: That’s great. Thank you so much for having me.
Denver Frederick, Host of The Business of Giving serves as a Trusted Advisor and Executive Coach to Nonprofit Leaders. His Book, The Business of Giving: New Best Practices for Nonprofit and Philanthropic Leaders in an Ever-Changing World, will be released later this year.Listen to more The Business of Giving episodes here. Subscribe to our podcast channel on Spotify to get notified of new episodes. You can also follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and on Facebook.