The following is a conversation between Jean Case, President of the Case Foundation, and the Author of Be Fearless: Five Principles for a Life of Breakthroughs and Purpose and Denver Frederick, Host of The Business of Giving on AM 970 The Answer in New York City.
Denver: The influence that leaders from the tech sector have had on the world of philanthropy over the past two decades has been profound. The creation of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation in the year 2000 was certainly a pivotal moment in that regard. But several years before that– in 1997 to be precise– this influence started to be realized when Steve and Jean Case of AOL, America Online, founded the Case Foundation. And it’s a great pleasure to have with us this evening, Jean Case, the CEO of the foundation and the author of a fabulous new book, Be Fearless: Five Principles for a Life of Breakthroughs and Purpose. Good evening, Jean, and welcome to The Business of Giving.
Jean: Good evening, Denver. I’ve really been looking forward to this time with you.
Denver: Likewise. You and your husband were digital pioneers, and I can recall how mission-centric AOL was in those early days. Share with us the journey from there to starting the Case Foundation some 21 years ago.
Jean: For those who are maybe not as familiar– because they’re too young– with the mission of AOL, and back in those days, we were really about building the internet revolution. But it was about democratizing access to ideas and information and communication and really empowering people. We found success. At one time, AOL carried 50% of the nation’s internet traffic. So, we saw firsthand the power to use resources to empower others, and I think we always knew that if resources came our way, we would want to share them with the world and continue to use them to empower others.
Last year, 90% of venture capital went to firms founded by men, leaving only 10% available to women. But the capital itself was only 2% that went to women. It was 10% of the deals, but 2% of the capital. Only 1% flowed to African-American founders. Perhaps most alarming, 78% of the capital went to just three places in the nation: California, New York, and Massachusetts.
Denver: I find the foundation expresses its theory of change with wonderful clarity. Let’s touch on a few of those elements if we can. One of them would be inclusive entrepreneurship, and the data around that is quite startling. Taking venture capital as an example, Jean, how is that distributed across the United States?
Jean: It’s really quite alarming to see the consolidation of venture capital today, and it’s unprecedented in our nation. I’ll give you some data to get started. Last year, 90% of venture capital went to firms founded by men, leaving only 10% available to women. But the capital itself was only 2% that went to women. It was 10% of the deals, but 2% of the capital. Only 1% flowed to African-American founders. Perhaps most alarming, 78% of the capital went to just three places in the nation: California, New York, and Massachusetts.
Denver: Forty-seven states fighting over the other 22%.
Jean: Absolutely. So in some cases, a state might get all year what a Silicon Valley firm could get in a week.
Denver: Let’s take that last one then. You have always believed that the people closest to the problem are the ones closest to the solution. If venture capital is targeted towards the middle of America, as opposed to the two coasts that you just mentioned, what pockets of innovation do you see springing up?
Jean: Wel,l let’s just think about Ag-Tech for instance. Food is another example. Think about some of the needs that we have on this planet to look at our land and to look at our food and to look at our agriculture. Where is that expertise in the nation? It is in our nation’s heartland; so that’s one example of a sector that we see so much promise in terms of new innovations. But we need to make sure that we bring mentors and capital, and what we call that jet fuel… to allow some of these new innovations to grow.
Denver: Another example, I think, is New Orleans and education. Correct?
Jean: Absolutely. A lot of people don’t know it, but after Hurricane Katrina, there was a flood of about a thousand Teach for America young people who went down there in the schools, and what you talked about Denver is spot on. They saw problems, and they came up with solutions, many of them in the form of new companies and what we call EdTech… or education technology. It’s become a real hub.
Nashville’s become a real hub for healthcare. So, in certain pockets; and if we look at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, we tend to think of it as an old steel town, but today, it has really become a hub for both robotics and AI. A lot of the driverless car technology that Uber and Ford and others are taking forward, they’re doing so right there in Pittsburgh.
Denver: Carnegie Mellon.
Denver: Another thing that you’ve been a pioneer in has been impact investing. In fact, you may have started impact investing before anybody had coined the term “ impact investing.”
Jean: Not exactly. What I would say is we were doing impact investing before we knew there was a term for it. Let’s put it that way. It was actually a team that came together and coined the phrase. Yes, we’ve been deeply engaged in impact investing for a long time. There, of course, we’re talking about financial investments that provide both a financial return, but also a social return. We’re excited by the growing momentum in the space.
Denver: Where do you see us along that journey right now in terms of the arc of impact investing?
Jean: I feel really good about it. We’re at a point where hundreds of billions of dollars are going into it. It doubled over the last year. I just came back from Paris with a group of high-net-worth individuals who were coming together to look at impact investing opportunities. Everywhere I go. Last summer, I was in Seoul, Korea with a group of Asian investors. But around the world and here in America, we’re seeing tremendous traction and momentum in the movement.
What’s different about this generation is they’re turning their idealism really into action and, by the way, voting. We were very, very encouraged to see the degree of voting that took place among the next generation in the recent mid-terms we had.
Denver: Another area of focus of this foundation has been around civic engagement. In fact, I remember one of your campaigns, Get In the Arena. Are we beginning to see that in a more pronounced way now?
Jean: I think we are, and I think we’re going talk a little bit about this when we talk about the book. But I do think people look around at their world today, and they feel a passionate need to make a difference. I think this next generation which we followed through research for the last decade touched over a hundred thousand of them in terms of getting their views and their insights around social good. Like all young generations, they’re idealistic. What’s different about this generation is they’re turning their idealism really into action and, by the way, voting. We were very, very encouraged to see the degree of voting that took place among the next generation in the recent mid-terms we had.
Denver: One last thing about the foundation itself. From all the initiatives you’ve created, developed, been part of, is there any one that you’re particularly excited or proud or fond of?
Jean: Denver, they’re all like my children. What I will say though is, we try to capture what we do by saying we invest in people and ideas that can change the world. And we’ve been so privileged to find and fund and spotlight great people all over the world doing extraordinary things.
Denver: I so much enjoyed reading your book. Let’s turn our attention to that…where you lay out the five principles of what it takes to be fearless. One of the things I loved about the book is that I actually remember the five principles. It’s so often when I read books, I’m always going back to find out what the two or the sixth or the eighth principles are. These things are so natural that they stick with your mind. And I’m going to walk through each one of them and have you talk about them, if you would, starting with ”Big Bets.” “Make Big Bets & Make History.” It sounds like incrementalism isn’t going to take us to where we need to go. Tell us about that.
Jean: We should point out that those principles were developed as part of work we did several years back at the Case Foundation using research led by some social scientists to look around and look back and say, “Hey, lots of people chase big ideas and transformational things. Why do some break out and others don’t?” What we found, of course, were these five principles that I think we’re going to walk through. It does start with making a big bet. Rejecting incremental change and really trying to embrace a very big idea, it is constant no matter where you look, no matter where in the world, no matter what sector you’re looking at, that it starts with a big idea, a truly big bet.
Denver: One of those big bets was around malaria, and you cite that in the book. Tell us about that.
Jean: Sure. Malaria is a great story. There’s a great leader here in New York, Ray Chambers, fantastic guy, who really got deeply engaged in malaria. Had this unbelievably successful career as an investor and really where storied MBA students learned about his success on that front, but then took a right turn in life and said, “Now I really want to spend the rest of my time giving away what I’ve earned.” So, he jumped into malaria really knowing nothing about it.
He was on a trip to Africa, and he observed some children in the hospital, and he said, “They’re all sleeping.” Someone said, “No. They’re in malaria coma.” I think that was a day that changed the rest of his life because he committed to bringing together a terrific collaboration to focus on malaria. The story in a nutshell, Denver, I think is that there were lots of people out there doing different things for malaria. If you might have gone to someone making a bed net and said: “ What are you doing?” They would have said, “I’m making a bed net for malaria.” After Ray pulled this collaboration together around a big idea– which is eradicate malaria off the planet– you go to those people today, and they say, “What are you doing?” They say, “I’m helping to eradicate malaria from the planet.” So, it’s a great model and of course, the roll back of malaria across the areas that he has focused on has just been extraordinary. In some countries, as much as an 80% reduction.
If you think about it, there’s almost a physical analogy to it that I think about, which is: We’re marching forward, but Wait! Now, suddenly we’ve linked arms. We’re marching together toward a common vision and a really big idea, and I think that does galvanize and coalesce people in a powerful way.
Denver: It’s amazing how big bets just energize people who are kind of just walking through their paces, but then all of a sudden, they get excited, and they become superhuman in some ways.
Jean: If you think about it, there’s almost a physical analogy to it that I think about, which is: We’re marching forward, but Wait! Now, suddenly we’ve linked arms. We’re marching together toward a common vision and a really big idea, and I think that does galvanize and coalesce people in a powerful way.
Denver: One of my favorite quotes around this is somebody said that: if you are having trouble rolling a small rock up a hill, the thing to do is go find a bigger rock because the way you think changes, and the energy you have to push changes as well.
Jean: Very interesting.
…what if we look at risk-taking as R&D. We understand that to do transformational things in science and in medicine and in technology, we have to deploy an R&D strategy, and usually a budget along with it as well, of time or money. Really, if we think about risk along the lines of research and development in our own lives, in our own organization, and try new things, it becomes a little less scary. That risk word does scare people, but the bottom line is, you can’t do things, you can’t break through with innovations without taking significant risk.
Denver: The second principle is Be Bold, Take Risks. I’m intrigued how that word “risk” is almost never used in this sector. So, I’m so glad,Jean, that you have brought up the R word. How do you need to look at this if you’re going to be a fearless leader?
Jean: It’s very funny because I spend time across all sectors, and while we may be quick to understand that maybe the nonprofit or the philanthropy sector is a little less comfortable with risk; it turns out across sectors, people are uncomfortable with risk. One of the things that I point out in the book is what if we look at risk-taking as R&D. We understand that to do transformational things in science and in medicine and in technology, we have to deploy an R&D strategy, and usually a budget along with it as well, of time or money. Really if we think about risk along the lines of research and development in our own lives, in our own organization, and try new things, it becomes a little less scary. That risk word does scare people, but the bottom line is, you can’t do new things, you can’t break through with innovations without taking significant risk.
Denver: I love that concept of R&D because when you change the language, it just has a completely different connotation to what you’re doing, and you feel good about” doing some R&D”; “I’m not risking donors’ money.”
Jean: One of the quotes I put in the book was Steve Jobs. He said he has heard from people who say they don’t have R&D budgets, so how are they supposed to compete in this world? And he points out that a lot of it comes down to a passionate team and really a point of view about: We’re going to try some things, and we’re going to keep going even if we fail along the way.
What I love is, I think there is a new breed of philanthropists and donors who encourage their organizations and even their governments to say, “Try some crazy things, and let’s see where we can go!” Big companies, as they get more comfortable and established, it’s too easy for them not to want to take a risk, to put all of that at risk. Surprisingly to us, the message of “Be Fearless” more broadly has resonated across sectors.
Denver: The third principle is to Make Failure Matter. While failure is celebrated in Silicon Valley or if it’s not celebrated, at least it’s accepted as a necessary part of the process. It’s not so much the case in the social sector where the problems are even more daunting. What do you think the reason for that is?
Jean: I thought a lot about this. We think more broadly about the social sector which could be comprised of, let’s say, the government or the public sector, philanthropy, and nonprofits. In all those three cases, the money that they’re deploying often comes from someone else. In the case of the government, it’s taxpayer money. In the case of philanthropy’s, sometimes you’re shepherding someone’s money who lived a hundred years ago. In nonprofits of course, you want to keep your donors pleased. So, I think without intention, what that has led to is a reluctance to talk about what isn’t working or where there was failure.
What I love is I think there is a new breed of philanthropists and donors who encourage their organizations and even their governments to say, “Try some crazy things, and let’s see where we can go!” I think that it was a message we first devised thinking that it was really aimed at the social sector because we had come out of technology where we understood the importance of taking risks to break through. But it turns out, as I said earlier, really all sectors need this message. Big companies as they get more comfortable and established, it’s too easy for them not to want to take a risk, to put all of that at risk. Surprisingly to us, the message of “Be Fearless” more broadly has resonated across sectors.
Denver: I think also sometimes is that we tend to underestimate donors. Organizations are afraid how donors are going to react if they fail. But they’re actually a little bit more intelligent than that. They understand that it we’re going to make some great change, so this is almost an assumption which is really not always true.
Jean: Right. And it goes back a little bit to that big bet or, let’s say, big idea, because I think if you bring the donor in and you say, “We’re going to try something, but we’re trying it towards achieving something really great that we don’t see how we can get there without taking some risk. Will you back us?” I think that kind of Kumbaya moment between the donor and the one receiving the funds is important and can provide air cover then when failure does happen.
Denver: When you thought about Make Failure Matter, you actually have experienced that first hand. With the water initiative you did in sub-Saharan Africa. Tell us that story. It’s a great story.
Jean: First of all, Denver, I need to make clear. That is my only failure story as you might imagine. But that certainly is one I highlighted in the book, and it’s very public. We introduced a very large initiative called Play Pumps. It was this really innovative technology that used the children’s merry-go-round, like a windmill on the ground, if you think about it, to pump clean water. We put a big collaboration together. We launched it at the Clinton Global Initiative with President Clinton to my right and first lady Laura Bush to my left. So, it was very high profile.
We brought a number of partners in, and as we began to deploy across 10 sub-Saharan African countries, we started to get some feedback from the field that there were some issues here, some issues over there. We did what any organization or initiative would do. We spent about a year or two trying to course correct. Finally, it became clear, it wasn’t working and we had a choice to make. Again, I talk about this in the book. Of course, we were tempted to say, “Can’t we just sweep that thing under the rug and not talk about it?” But we knew what we had to do. So, in the end we did decide to come clean. I wrote a very public blog called The Painful Acknowledgement of Coming Up Short. Frankly, that was probably where “Be Fearless” was born even though we didn’t know it at that time.
Denver: I think so. That was probably the genesis of it.
Jean: It was because what I saw immediately was my peers across all sectors saying, “Thank you for acknowledging failure. It doesn’t happen enough.” Of course, we didn’t just shut it down. We pivoted and found a better way forward. But I think it was particularly the public acknowledgment that was rare. Then we started these things called Fail Fests where we would get groups together and we would share stories of failure… not to celebrate them at all… but to really use them as teachable moments. Some of the failure stories that others have boldly shared with me have helped me be better as I take on other things because I can learn from them.
Denver: I can just picture you trying to hit Send after you wrote that blog. I can see the hand shaking.
Jean: Really one of the hardest Send buttons I’ve ever had.
It’s surprising, but when you look back at things that have broken through, it actually is because people were able to stop and say, “I don’t have everything it takes to take this big idea forward. I need people unlike me with complementary skills, perspectives, and backgrounds.” That’s a really important part of this secret sauce of transformation. Yes, it’s a very important principle, and we see this play out in big ways.
Denver: The fourth principle is Reach Beyond Your Bubble. I guess being firmly planted in your comfort zone is no way to be fearless. Talk to that.
Jean: That’s exactly right. Another way that we describe that is the importance of building unlikely collaborations and partnerships. It’s surprising, but when you look back at things that have broken through, it actually is because people were able to stop and say, “I don’t have everything it takes to take this big idea forward. I need people unlike me with complementary skills, perspectives, and backgrounds.” That’s a really important part of this secret sauce of transformation. Yes, it’s a very important principle, and we see this play out in big ways.
Denver: In fact, at the Case Foundation, you’ve really made cross-sector collaboration something that everybody has to do.
Jean: We do. Most of our major initiatives, if not all, have had a nonprofit partner, a public sector partner, and a corporate or business partner as well. And it’s specifically because each one brings a different expertise or capability that we don’t necessarily have, and then helps be able to aim much bigger and broader in our efforts.
Denver: One of the examples in the book you cite is the Four Freedoms Fund. Speak to that.
Jean: It’s an example of a lot of different things that we’ve done through time. I think when we look back at the things that have been most effective, it’s because we can actually pinpoint how different it was than something that we were familiar with or an expertise that we had.
Denver: My favorite of your five principles is the final one and that is, Let Urgency Conquer Fear. In fact, you quote Martin Luther King in the book, talking about the fierce urgency of now. Talk a little bit about that.
Jean: That’s right. I really think about that in this day. I think many people are walking around feeling the fierce urgency of now. I think they see division. I think they see in many cases fear gripping communities, and this sense of urgency that we feel can sometimes get us out of our comfort zones enough because it’s pushing us. It’s an urgency we feel to maybe do something that at normal course and speed, we wouldn’t be able to dig deep and really go take that risk.
Denver: One of the reasons I think I like this one so much, this principle, is that with the other four, I’m thinking about them. When I have urgency, my body gets involved.
Jean: That’s your action point.
Denver: Absolutely. When my body gets involved, and I’m not thinking too much, things just happen. Whereas, there’s a lot that can go on upstairs in your head which would allow me to rationalize it or procrastinate it, but urgency– when your body is engaged– things begin to happen.
Jean: We haven’t talked about it, but although we do talk about the principles in the book, and they’re the basis of the book, as you know Denver, they really are brought out through storytelling. Great stories of people who have lived these principles in a meaningful way and an urgency. We’re used to, for instance on the battlefield or in an actual disaster, people do extraordinary things, and that is urgency really pushing them forward. But I also try to bring some examples forward of ordinary people who’ve done extraordinary things because they felt that deep sense of urgency in the moment.
Denver: Give us an example of one of those.
Jean: Sure. Corrie ten Boom is an unlikely hero I think in many respects. A woman who in her 50s, she was single and living with her father above a watch-making shop in Holland when she witnessed a terrible act. It was the late ‘30s when the Nazis were moving across Europe, and she witnessed a Jewish neighbor being led out of his house and held at gunpoint. She was so horrified, she ran across the street and grabbed him; the soldiers had gone into the house to ransack it. She grabbed him and brought him into the shop.
That began for her a fearless life as a soldier in the resistance army against the Nazis. She ended up saving hundreds of Jews. She went to a concentration camp herself and suffered for her actions, and when she was finally released, she went right back to that same fearless resistance work that she had done before. But I’m quite certain, if that urgent moment hadn’t hit her, it might have been different for her to find the boldness to do some extraordinary things.
Denver: You’re absolutely right. You also have admired the fearlessness of Betty Ford. Why so?
Jean: I think Betty Ford’s fearlessness isn’t acknowledged enough. A couple of ways, first of all as many people might know, she developed breast cancer when she was first lady, and I’m a breast cancer survivor. At that time, we don’t remember it, but it wasn’t talked about. Remember it has the word “breast” in it. My goodness! We don’t talk about that! But she was very transparent about what she had gone through. I think many people give her credit for the way routine screens and scans are adopted today, and more women go for them because it was put on the table as a conversation.
Women in many cases didn’t know what to do. Second reason is because of her own battle with addictions. She did have addictions and substance abuse– both alcohol and drugs. Her family boldly confronted her with it, and she boldly took action. And then, of course, out of that was born the Betty Ford Center, which is perhaps one of the best known rehabilitation centers in the nation. Over a hundred thousand people have received care through the Betty Ford Center since that time. But when you think about those two things; something involving that word “breast,” but also really what can be otherwise shame and hiding of an addiction problem… because of her transparency, she’s been able to affect the lives of many, many people.
Denver: Two taboo issues that she really shined a bright light on, the momentum has carried forward. Speaking of family, there’s been an issue close to your family and that has to do with Accelerate Brain Cancer Cure. Tell us a little bit about that.
Jean: That’s an organization we co-founded as a family with my late brother and my sister-in-law. He developed brain cancer, glioblastoma, at the age of 41, and it was very clear that there was not very much survivability of that cancer at that time. So, as lay people, we began to ask a bunch of questions. He was an amazing leader himself, so we decided maybe there’s an opportunity to try to accelerate therapies for that cancer. At that time, the therapies being used had been used for 20 years, with no innovation. So, we brought a large collaborative together, and I’m really grateful to say that survivability has really extended, and many new therapies have been brought in to the field in the last 20 years or so.
We hope it’s a clarion call. We think it is a good antidote to the fear and some of the discouragement that people feel out there, and hopefully just an inspiration for people to take whatever their big idea or solution that they see that they can be part of… to take that forward.
Denver: Be Fearless is certainly not just a book. It’s a movement and something that you have championed for such a long time now. It’s probably almost part of you. But now that the book is here, what are some of the things you’re going to do to try to activate this movement so people in fact do become fearless?
Jean: Our hope is that in laying out the principles, but honestly,in using these inspirational stories of what I really do believe people will see as ordinary people– maybe just like themselves who dug deep, applied the principles, and ended up doing extraordinary things. We hope it’s a clarion call. We think it is a good antidote to the fear and some of the discouragement that people feel out there, and hopefully just an inspiration for people to take whatever their big idea or solution that they see that they can be part of… to take that forward.
…part of the reason I just wove some vignettes from my own life into the book is because I think anyone who looked at me early in life would never predict that I would be able to go have the career I did in technology, or move on to philanthropy and do some of the things I’ve had the opportunity to do. So I feel it myself. Anyone can look at himself or herself and say, “That’s not me.” The real message of the book is “That is you. Come join us.”
Denver: I agree with you. When we see some of these luminaries, we say to ourselves, “Well, I’m not like that.” But when you see these everyday people, it’s much easier to see ourselves in that person, and therefore saying, “Maybe, me too.” It gives you the courage and the inspiration to move ahead.
Jean: Right. And I will say, Denver, part of the reason I just wove some vignettes from my own life into the book is because I think anyone who looked at me early in life would never predict that I would be able to go have the career I did in technology, or move on to philanthropy and do some of the things I’ve had the opportunity to do. So I feel it myself. Anyone can look at himself or herself and say, “That’s not me.” The real message of the book is “That is you. Come join us.”
Denver: Tell us a little bit more about that. Because you grew up in some pretty challenging circumstances. Tell us about that and how it’s really informed your life.
Jean: I was the youngest child of a single mom. We had four kids in our family, and I was the youngest. We did face some challenges. Perhaps, in some ways I think it’s a very American story. As a recipient of philanthropy myself, I was on a full scholarship at a private school. I wasn’t able to come around and use my own resources to help those who followed behind me. So it’s a rare situation in life I think when you move from being a recipient of the generosity of others to being in a position in life where then you can share yours with others as well.
Denver: Let me turn back to the Case Foundation for a moment, and tell us a little bit about the corporate culture. What is unique and distinctive about it? And why is it such a special place in which to work?
Jean: Maybe this will help define it a little bit. When we review where we are with things as part of our annual planning for instance…. We do business plans, but we use this green, yellow, red light theory. The idea behind it is, okay, we’re looking at, Did we bring to it what we needed to do? Did the partner bring to it what they needed to do? If it’s green, we’re off to the races. If it’s yellow, we’d better watch that one. Red usually means it’s failing.
One year, when we did the review, I noticed there were no reds. So, we had a heart to heart as a team and said, Look if we really are trying to push the envelope, if we really are trying to bring innovation, we have to have some reds because nobody bats a thousand. So, now we try to make sure that there’s always a few things in our portfolio where we’re never really sure how they’re going to turn out, but we’re aiming for something big. And I think in many ways, that’s a good definition of the culture that we have, and I’ve been so fortunate; I have this extraordinary team of people who inspire me every day, and I think they’re very entrepreneurial in their approach, and we have a lot of fun in the process as well.
Denver: That sounds good. You’re right. If you don’t have enough reds, or any reds, it means you’re not taking enough chances.
Jean: That’s exactly right.
Denver: You and your husband became part of The Giving Pledge. I think it was back in 2011, and it’s grown into this community of sorts where you all learn from each other. Share with us what it’s like to be part of this distinguished group.
Jean: I must say our commitment to give away the majority of our resources… that commitment was made long before there was The Giving Pledge. It was a little uncomfortable for us to think about being so public with The Giving Pledge when we joined. But ultimately I think what put us over the line to a Yes! was this really unique opportunity to learn with and from others. So, it is really a network of people who are doing exactly what we’re trying to do– which is figure out the smartest ways to use your resources to empower others. And it’s been a powerful teaching tool for us.
Denver: Let me close with this, Jean. What has the impact of philanthropy been on your own life? How has it changed you, and how has it made you the person that you have become?
Jean: I would say, anything that I am, any opportunities I’ve had, I have someone else to thank for that. Their time, their resources, their mentoring, their care. Anyone can be a philanthropist. Anyone can make a difference in this world. The reason I wrote the book is to make that crystal clear. There are stories that, as I said earlier, anyone will see some of himself or herself. That’s what philanthropy has done for me. I wake up every day grateful for the opportunity to work on some really daunting challenges across the world. But it’s also some of the most fun I’ve ever had in my life, so I encourage everyone to jump in.
Denver: You do make it fun. I do know that. Your north star has always been empowering others and that’s what this book is going to do.
Jean: Thank you, Denver.
Denver: Jean Case, the CEO of the Case Foundation and the author of Be Fearless: Five Principles for a Life of Breakthroughs and Purpose, I want to thank you so much for being on the show this evening. If people want to get a peek at some of what’s included in that book, you share a lot of that online. Where can people go to find it?
Jean: Readbefearless.com, it’s a great place to see a summary of the book, to see what others are saying about it and to order the book.
Denver: This is the perfect book to read if you really want to get 2019 off on the right foot. It was a real pleasure to have you on the show, Jean.
Jean: Thank you so much, Denver. Pleasure to be with you.
Denver: I’ll be back with more of The Business of Giving right after this.
The Business of Giving can be heard every Sunday evening between 6:00 p.m. and 7:00 p.m. Eastern on AM 970 The Answer in New York and on iHeartRadio. You can follow us @bizofgive on Twitter, @bizofgive on Instagram and at www.facebook.com/businessofgiving.