The following is a conversation between Charles Daniels, CEO of Fathers’ Uplift, and Denver Frederick, Host of The Business of Giving on AM 970 The Answer in NYC.


Denver: There is a growing belief that the best person to solve a social problem is someone who has experienced that very problem themselves. That would be the case for my next guest. His father was absent for a big part of his life, and the impact that it had on him was very real and very painful. And it ultimately inspired him to start an organization that would assist fathers in overcoming barriers so they can stay engaged in their children’s lives. He is Charles Daniels, the CEO of Fathers’ Uplift. Good evening, Charles, and welcome to The Business of Giving.

Charles Daniels

Charles: Good evening. Thank you for having me.

Denver: Tell us of the mission, Charles, of Fathers’ Uplift.

Charles: Fathers’ Uplift is the country’s first outpatient mental health facility for fathers and families where we assist dads with overcoming barriers that could prevent them from being engaged in their children’s lives.

Denver: I mentioned in the opening that this is something that you’ve experienced firsthand. Tell us about it and the impact that it had on you… of having your father absent from your life.

Charles: Absolutely. I grew up in a household primarily headed by my mother in Atlanta, Georgia. What I realized, I would question her, “Where is my father?”  My father was in my life up until the age of 10 years old. After that, he was gone. As I grew older, I found myself engaging in substances, using substances. Also, behavioral issues, acting out, fighting, things of that nature. I realized that much of that was because my father wasn’t in my life. I realized that when I almost killed myself. I remember jumping out – or thinking about jumping out of a window because my dad wasn’t there. But when I got older, I realized why he wasn’t there, and to make a long story short, my father wasn’t in my life because I was a result of a marital affair. My mother was the outside woman. My father had been married to his wife for 30 years, and I’m sure he didn’t know how to engage that or even overcome that issue. So, that’s kind of a little bit about my story.

Denver: And it was pretty tough for you. I know you played sports in college, and you were almost jealous of all the other fathers who were in the stands cheering their boy along, but your dad wasn’t there.

Charles: He wasn’t. He wasn’t.

What research tells us is that kids who are growing up in households without their fathers– poverty rates increase, as well as behavioral issues, substance use issues.  Incarceration rates increase, as well as early pregnancy. Everything that you could think of, any social problem today, could always be tied back to a father.

Denver: Charles, how many children in the US are growing up in fatherless households?  And what are some of the negative consequences of that?

Charles: According to recent data, it is estimated about 20 million kids nationwide are growing up in households without their fathers. What research tells us is that kids who are growing up in households without their fathers– poverty rates increase, as well as behavioral issues, substance use issues. Incarceration rates increase, as well as early pregnancy. Everything that you could think of, any social problem today, could always be tied back to a father.

Our research has revealed that, and we see it happening every single day. In our agency, dads who want to be engaged, kids who are growing up in households without their fathers who are suffering in school, who are using substances, who are engaged in gang violence, and then mothers bringing their kids to us because they don’t know what to do with them. Research says and we see it physically in our agency, at our facility in Dorchester, when you don’t have a father or when a father is not involved in your life positively, it results in some negative circumstances. It’s real. We just need to acknowledge it.

Denver: It’s incredibly significant. Research shows that 85% of behavioral problems come from kids who live in a household without a father, and you talk about the risk of poverty, it’s four times as great. These are big, big-time numbers. On the other hand, fatherhood has been pretty hot these days. Recent research shows the incalculable benefits that dads can bestow. Share with us some of the positive research of having a father in one’s life.

Charles: We note educational improvements like reading and things of that nature. Children benefit dramatically when dads are engaged in their kids’ lives. We also see the IQ levels increasing. We also see kids are performing better in school. They are moving on having effective and beneficial lives when they have a father involved in their kids’ lives. Educationally, emotionally, there is a positive benefit to having a father around. We see that happening as well. There are things that automatically stop when a dad is involved in his kids’ lives, things such as acting out. Kids, of course, you’re going to act out when you’re growing up, but due to circumstances, when you feel as if you have to find love in unhealthy places, join gangs, engage in unhealthy mechanisms. When the dad is there, I think kids feel, what I know for certain, that kids feel validated, they feel important, especially if he’s involved in a positive way. You see the negative side. But you also see there’s some positive benefits to having a dad.

Denver: Charles, would it be fair to say that there has been a devaluation of males as parents by daycare centers, by schools, even for that matter, by the court system?

Charles: What’s interesting is in some states, if you’re a father and you don’t sign the birth certificate, you have no rights to that child. Automatically, the mother has a right to the kid.  Unless you sign the birth certificate in some states– even if you sign the birth certificate– mom, if she has a child, can automatically leave the state. How you feel about that doesn’t necessarily matter. If you’re a dad and mom leaves the state, you can’t just call the police and say, “Hey, my child is missing.” Right? We’ve had a few fathers do that before. The judge will say, “You have no right to that child.” In terms of thinking about, does the dad have a right to his child…  if you and the mother are not on the same page… Mom could do whatever she wants to do, and I think legally speaking, that’s the truth.

We also know that in daycare… schools across the nation, there’s this tendency to go to mom when it comes to the child– asking about questions on the health of the child, whatever the case may be. Dads are not necessarily looked upon as the ones who actually know about the child. I think we’re starting to see a small shift right now, but culturally, everything automatically goes to the mom: Rights, knowledge, know-how – everyone pulls on mom, and we see that happening in our community and communities nationwide. That’s culturally how it’s been in the past few years.

…there’s expectation for a father to be able to take care of his kid, and when he can’t take care of himself. If they’re in arrears, their wages can  be garnished.  How much can you do for a child financially? There’s a lot that you can do for a child emotionally, but if you are separated from your kid, you’re emotionally in shambles. Those are some of the barriers. Emotional issues, shame, guilt; there’s a lot of guilt. Dads experience a lot of guilt. For example, if a dad hasn’t been in his kid’s life for a few years, he doesn’t know how to pick up the phone again because he feels as if he’s going to be shamed. He’s going to be looked down upon. So, we help them navigate those issues.

Denver: Before we get to your program, let’s talk about some of the challenges that dads have in staying engaged in their child’s life. How big a problem would abuse be, whether it be drug abuse or alcohol abuse?

Charles: I’m so happy you asked that question. There are so many barriers. Substance use is definitely one of those. Oftentimes, substance use is always connected to another factor, another barrier. Substance use and housing issues, that’s a popular combination in our city. If you’re addicted to some form of drug or alcohol, and you’re homeless at the same time, you won’t be in your kids’ lives. But I think that’s a misconception that if you’re not there, then we make sure that we dismantle. If you’re not there, you don’t care about the kid. That’s false. That’s the farthest thing away from the truth. Meaning the dads who are not engaged in their kids’ lives who enter our agency still want to be in their kids’ lives. They just don’t know how.

There’s also a lot of shame and guilt. So, you think about substance use, drug use, alcohol use, cannabis, whatever substances; if they’re overbearing, they will interfere with the father’s ability being in their kids’ lives. Housing issues, child-support related issues; there’s expectation for a father to be able to take care of his kid, and when he can’t take care of himself: if they’re in arrears, their wages can be garnished. How much can you do for a child financially? There’s a lot that you can do for a child emotionally, but if you are separated from your kid, you’re emotionally in shambles. Those are some of the barriers. Emotional issues, shame, guilt; there’s a lot of guilt. Dads experience a lot of guilt. For example, if a dad hasn’t been in his kid’s life for a few years, he doesn’t know how to pick up the phone again because he feels as if he’s going to be shamed. He’s going to be looked down upon. So, we help them navigate those issues. Emotional barriers, financial barriers, housing barriers.

Relational barriers. There’s this new topic that research is revealing called maternal gatekeeping. If dads have been incarcerated, going in and out of jail, and they want to come out of jail and just be in their kid’s life, the mom protects the child because she doesn’t want the father to take advantage of him anymore. And they called it – research shows that they call that “maternal gatekeeping.” The momma’s protecting the child from the father potentially hurting that child again. So, those are a whole bunch of issues that contribute to a father not being there.

…sometimes the streets do a better job in raising our kids than us. What does that mean? I think the streets are more aggressive. I think the streets are more empathetic. I think the streets are more nonjudgmental. I think much of our services as an agency, they are trying to re-engage fathers or try to keep kids positively involved in other constructive activities. We have to take a page out of the books of the streets. We got to be empathetic. We can’t judge them; we got to love them back to life. We have to be aggressive.

Denver: Just listening to you Charles, I also think about worthiness because we have this concept, the stereotype in our society, of what a male or what a good father should be, which is strong, a provider, a protector. He’s got a job. He has money. He can provide materialistic things, and if you can’t live up to that, you feel inadequate somehow and just stay away. Would that be the case?

In my case, use your vulnerability to be a better father to your children. Use your vulnerability to say, “Hey, I’m not defined by it. I can be a better father to my child. I create my definition.” Which is what we do a lot, Denver. We help dads reconstruct the definition that’s projected onto them– where you got to be a provider, you got to have a nice car, you have to have a nice house, and we give them the  tools to create their own definition.

Charles: Absolutely. It’s always the case. There’s an image of what a dad should be that society tells you. If you don’t have a father in your life, you create one. You’re mainly leaning on the one that society tells you, or the one in your community that you’ve been exposed to. I tell people all the time: sometimes the streets do a better job in raising our kids than us. What does that mean? I think the streets are more aggressive. I think the streets are more empathetic. I think the streets are more nonjudgmental. I think much of our services as an agency, they are trying to re-engage fathers or try to keep kids positively involved in other constructive activities. We ought to take a page out of the books of the streets. We got to be empathetic. We can’t judge them; we got to love them back to life. We have to be aggressive. I’m not saying what the streets is doing is correct. However, the streets does know how to play on people’s vulnerability and use it for their benefit. And we have to make sure that we can help them capture that vulnerability and do something great with it.

In my case, use your vulnerability to be a better father to your children. Use your vulnerability to say, “Hey, I’m not defined by it. I can be a better father to my child. I create my definition.” Which is what we do a lot, Denver. We help dads reconstruct the definition that’s projected onto them– where you got to be a provider, you got to have a nice car, you have to have a nice house, and we give them the tools to create their own definition. There’s many free activities. There’s many activities where you could spend time with your kids in a free, non-conventional setting. Your kid would appreciate you for that. It’s all about breaking down the stereotypical nature of what the dad should be and creating a new one.

Charles Daniels and Denver Frederick inside the studio

Denver: Is there a challenge of being a good father when you haven’t grown up in a household which had a father?

Charles: Absolutely. Even me, in my personal situation, there isn’t a manual on how to be a father. But given the creative nature of who I am in my being, I just create what a father should be, and I pass along that imagination for many of the dads to say, “Charles, where do I look? How do I become a dad when I don’t have a job? How do I become a dad when I don’t have this, this, and that?”

“Well, you are what you say you are. What type of dad you want to be until you get stabilized?” And that’s where we mainly focus on, more so than worrying about what you’re not. ”What do you want to be and how can you be close to that?”

Denver: How do people find Fathers’ Uplift?

Charles: It’s interesting. I want to be honest with you. Last couple of months, we’ve expanded our services to include children who are growing up in households without their fathers to provide counseling services, support for them as well. Reason for this: because we’ve received a lot of referrals from single mothers in our community who brought their kids to us and say, “Hey, I don’t know what to do with my kid. He’s acting out. His father is not in his life.” A lot of word of mouth. A lot of single mothers. A lot of grandmothers. Grandmothers send some of the dads to us. They send their sons to us. They send their nephews to us. “Hey, I’m going to make him come!”  

And we do know that in African-American communities, women have been the backbone of our community, right? I grew up in a single-parent household, I saw the brunt that many of our mothers take on when in fact the father is absent for a variety of reasons. So, they play a huge role in our referral source. We get a lot of referrals from them. Word of mouth, community clinics, state agencies such as Department of Children and Families, Department of Youth Services, hospitals, as well as some churches. From the mom, from the grandmother, from the aunt, to word of mouth, to churches and community clinics, we get them all.

Denver: It’s a grapevine.

Charles: Absolutely. On average, we receive 40 new fathers and families a month.

Denver: Sticking with the fathers, tell us about the program. What is the experience of the men who become part of it?

Charles: I think it’s a great experience. One thing that we say – I don’t know if you probably heard this story before but – what was integral to my growth was the church community that made a vow that they would stand for me and help my mother raise me for the remainder of my life.  They still, to this day, that church community has been my village, my pillar of hope. So, Fathers’ Uplift is based on that village concept. We’re creating a village for many of the fathers who want to be engaged in their kids’ lives but are not there in our community.

And how we do that is that, currently, we are now a patient mental health facility for fathers and their families. We’re an unconventional outpatient mental health facility. We have group therapy. We have individual therapy, family therapy. Now, I know other agencies have that, but we have it in an innovative way. What does that mean? Our therapy and services can happen anywhere in the community, first and foremost.  We know that many of the men that we serve, many of the families that we serve, may not want to come to our office, so we’re willing to meet them where they are, first and foremost.

We’re not coaching you how to be a parent. Fathers’ Uplift isn’t a parenting program. I tell people that all time. We focus on self-parenting. My philosophy is, I teach a man how to parent himself; he will more likely be able to parent a child.

Denver: Without walls.

Charles: Absolutely. Sometimes, too, people say, “You know, the community doesn’t necessarily like mental health services, but for us, it’s all about framing. We center our model around a concept of wellness, and we do know that men may not like the word “mental health” therapy, but a lot of them understand the word “wellness.”  Sometimes, we have to say, “Hey, come get your wellness shake.” If you have a broken leg, you wouldn’t leave it broken. You’re going to get a cast, so come get your wellness, so we can see how we can support you.

Another thing is, too, I think there’s one service that we really pride ourselves on. It’s called the Fathers’ Homecoming Project where we enter the jails three months prior to a father’s release to put together a mental health plan to help him leave the jail and engage in his kids’ lives. So, we’re the first person that a father sees when he’s been released from jail. Our partner site right now, Suffolk County House of Corrections, and we call it therapeutic transports, when they get ready to leave, we’re there. They already know where they’re going, and we transport them from jail to home. We also provide father coaching services. We’re not coaching you how to be a parent. Fathers’ Uplift isn’t a parenting program. I tell people that all time. We focus on self-parenting. My philosophy is, I teach a man how to parent himself; he will more likely be able to parent a child.

Denver: You got to take care of yourself before you can take care of anybody else. No question about it.

Charles: Coaching services, we provide them. We support them in getting jobs. We’re also helping them navigate any issues that they may be experiencing in the community from the ground up. We don’t just send them out and say, “Hey, go over there apply for that job.”  We go with you. I think that’s one fundamental difference that we do. We go with our dads; we make time to go. Currently speaking, we’re having a job fair for our community right now where we’re guaranteeing jobs for our dads and our families. This is the type of stuff that makes you innovative. You got to think outside of the box.

And for our youth. And I think this is very important for our youth who grew up in households without their fathers: We have a year-long program where our youth engage in weekly groups about: How do you manage your emotions and use them in a constructive way? A part of that is entrepreneurship. A part of it is clinical counseling. Another part of that is art. Our kids are going to be going to the J Cole concert next Tuesday to analyze those lyrics and really think about what that looks like, and they’re going with a group of fathers. So, how amazing is that?

These are just holistic services that we do. But we love what we do. And I also believe that there shouldn’t be a cutoff time frame. So whatever the insurance companies don’t pay for, we have grant funds for support. So, we don’t have a cutoff. We continue to engage our fathers and their families whenever they need us, and we will always be their village for them. We can’t just say, “Hey, three months is over.” We’re like, “Whenever you need us.”  And they use us in times of crisis which is good. Some dads get to the program and then they say, “Hey, I’m in crisis.” We’re like, “We’re here. Come on by.” It’s a back and forth type situation. It’s a little bit about what we do.

Denver: Holistic as you said. It is so difficult sometimes when they set these guidelines for a program as if everybody in that program is going to be the same, and they need 90 days or 120 or whatever. It’s going to be different for everybody. Talk a little bit about Hosna

Charles: In our community, we’ve seen that alcohol and cannabis are substances that many of our youth lean towards when they do not have a positive outlet. So Hosna is our youth recovery center where we have constructive events throughout the week, and throughout the weekend throughout the day. If a kid is feeling a little depressed or anxious, he always can stop by and say, “Hey, can I get some support?” He doesn’t necessarily have to wait until the day is over. He always has us 24 hours a day.

Now, the center stays open from 9 AM to 7 PM, but our phone call is always open 24 hours a day. There’s always a  continuum of constructive events for our youth and our fathers to engage in whenever they are needed. Many of that is geared towards – if you feel like using drugs or substances, what can you do as an alternative? Come in and we can support you, really thinking about other ways to put to use what you’re feeling and to not numb it but to do something good with it. We have art activities. We have access to computers. We also have constructive events, games. A lot of our kids love the new Nintendo. I’m not really into the game consoles but we have a few of those. That’s a little bit about Hosna

We do have pre-father care. I’m not sure we’re going to touch on that, but pre-father care is our intervention that we give to our kids and to our fathers. My philosophy is that we should treat fatherhood the same way that we treat sex education. We shouldn’t wait until men become fathers and begin to teach them what fathering looks like. Pre-father care gives men and kids the tools they need to really explore what fathering is from the inside-out perspective.

…everything is mainly geared towards emotion management. How do you deal with shame? How do you deal with guilt? How do you deal with embarrassment?

Denver: Prenatal care for fathers. And you’re writing a book. Give us a couple of the concrete tools in that book that will help the new fathers.

Charles: Absolutely. Some of the concrete tools is mainly, everything is mainly geared towards emotion management. How do you deal with shame? How do you deal with guilt? How do you deal with embarrassment? For the dads who enter our agency who have had these different emotions – sadness, anger, regret, not knowing how to forgive themselves; that have been the root of actually engaging in negative coping mechanisms. So, our goal is to give dads this book of tools and to walk them through that process through a buddy system, where we partner them with our coaches, but also with someone in the group to help them develop constructive ways to manage these emotions. As a therapist, we teach them how to do that. I teach them how to do that, I lead these groups. So, I’m putting all my skills that I think I have– a tool book for our fathers and for their families. You could do this in a group setting, or you can do this in an individual setting. But I do believe it’s going to be a joy to the world once it’s released.

I have practitioners who are coming to me saying, “Hey, Charles, how do we get these mothers to tell us where these dads are?” if you’re going to take away their voucher, if they were to disclose to you where the dad is, then that’s not going to be a good thing for them. The story behind the story is, if we need the benefits, I’m going to make sure that I protect the father. I don’t let you know where he is so we can get the benefits.

Denver: As a therapist, one thing I know that you’ve learned is we kind of jump to these conclusions, these assumptions, as to why a father is not engaged in their children’s lives. And so often, that is wrong, and I know that you’ve experienced that firsthand in terms of dealing with some of the people that you’ve dealt with, and realizing there is a story behind the story that one would never suspect.

Charles: Absolutely. Like for example, families who receive governmental assistance, one problem that we are seeing in the State of Massachusetts is that we have early education learning centers that are trying to engage dads, but the moms are not necessarily telling where the dads are because you know if there’s a two-parent income or if the dad is involved, they can’t receive the benefits to put their child in the early education learning center. I have practitioners who are coming to me saying, “Hey, Charles, how do we get these mothers to tell us where these dads are?” if you’re going to take away their voucher, if they were to disclose to you where the dad is, then that’s not going to be a good thing for them. The story behind the story is, if we need the benefits, I’m going to make sure that I protect the father. I don’t let you know where he is so we can get the benefits.

I think politically and systemically, sometimes the system is set up for the dad to be absent for the gaining of resources. That’s another story behind the story that we don’t necessarily think about, and I’ve heard people say, “Well, the dad isn’t there. How can we get him engaged?” The dad isn’t there on paper because they need the resources. What do we need to think about constructively to create systems where dads can be present, and they also can receive the resources with the mom, and you’re not separating the families. That’s an example of the story behind the story. But we’re always about creating new narratives for practitioners to really think about and to be honest with.

We have a system of – how do you address each other in a constructive manner? We have a culture of accountability. People can hold me accountable, and I don’t think that’s a problem. Tell me how you feel about my leadership. Tell me how you feel about me. Just don’t curse me out. Tell me how you feel about me, and I embrace that. Every Friday, we have a family check-in. We always have a staff meeting, but we always have a love moment, and we have a rose and a thorn. A rose is something good about your day; a thorn is something bad that you’re going through.

Denver: Tell us about the workplace culture, the corporate culture of Fathers’ Uplift.  And what do you think makes it special for the people who work there?

Charles: All of our staff look forward to coming to work; we can’t kick them out of the office. We have to be very strict about when they leave and when they come in because they love being in. I think what makes our culture great is that we have a nonjudgmental atmosphere, and we allow people to be themselves. We have an open culture where people can actually address challenges with fellow colleagues in a constructive way. We have a system of– how do you address each other in a constructive manner? We have a culture of accountability. People can hold me accountable, and I don’t think that’s a problem. Tell me how you feel about my leadership. Tell me how you feel about me. Just don’t curse me out. Tell me how you feel about me, and I embrace that. Every Friday, we have a family check-in. We always have a staff meeting, but we always have a love moment, and we have a rose and a thorn. A rose is something good about your day; a thorn is something bad that you’re going through.

A love moment. Just an opportunity for us to pour love into one another and let each other know how much we appreciate them. That’s the type of culture we have. I believe that makes our work environment positive. A culture of accountability where the leader can be held accountable by the employees. A culture of love where you would know what I appreciate about you every week, and an honest and open culture for people just to be themselves and to innovate. We also allow our staff to innovate new programs and really think about what do they want to contribute and give to Fathers’ Uplift. We have boundaries, but for the most part, we give people the freedom to be themselves, and I think that’s what makes us different and unique.

Denver: Where does Fathers’ Uplift go from here? I know you have plans to grow the program. Have you thought about replicating it or taking it to other parts of Massachusetts, or even other states?

Charles: That’s a good question. My ultimate goal is for Fathers’ Uplift to continue to be around when I am no longer here.  And also I want to make sure that we can have a father figure or reengage the father in each one of those 20 million households, and even nationwide. If Fathers’ Uplift is close to doing that or has done that completely, I think Fathers’ Uplift has done its job.

We’re looking at ways to replicate virtually. How can parents and caregivers have access to the services of Fathers’ Uplift with a touch of an app? What would that look like? So, we’re currently partnering with a software engineer to really explore opportunities for us to engage the populations that are outside the state with receiving some of the services that Fathers’ Uplift has to offer. We believe that there’s a father who wants to be engaged in his community– which is what our culture is doing–in every state. We also believe that there’s a prison with fathers in the community in every state, with fathers in jail in every state, and we have fathers in the community who we can connect with those jails in every state.

The goal is: How can we connect it?  And we’re looking at also a book where I put everything that we’ve done at Fathers’ Uplift into a book and publish it and just begin distributing it to people who feel interested in being a part of our movement. We also have something called The Male Engagement Institute that we’re going to begin where people can come to Fathers’ Uplift and study under Fathers’ Uplift for two years, and then understand our model, and then take it somewhere where the model hasn’t been delivered. Those are a few ways where we think about replicating– through our book, through our Male Engagement Institute, as well as through an app that we’re exploring.

Denver: Get that book done.

Let me close with this Charles. If you were King for a Day, and you could do anything in American society at large to change our perception of fathers, and of their value and the importance that they play in the family, what would that be?

Charles:  I would get rid of the child support system. I would appoint a board of fathers who adore great work in each state to oversee the support of the families in their state, and I would think strategically…. allow them to create programs of how they can engage fathers who are not contributing to their households in a constructive way, in a way that’s not demeaning, but one that’s innovative, that partners with the dad, and gives them the tools they need to provide for themselves and also give back to their households; that’s what I would do. I would dismantle the child support system and appoint those fathers to take over and develop something new.

Denver: It’d be a big day for you. Charles Daniels, the chief executive officer of Fathers’ Uplift. Thank you so much for being here and informing us on this really often overlooked issue. Those who want to learn even more, tell us about your website. And what do you have there for visitors?

Charles: Absolutely. If you want to learn more, go to www.fathersuplift.org. You also can follow us on Fathers’ Uplift on Instagram as well as Twitter. You can follow me at Charles Clayton Daniels Jr.  There you would find just some hints on how to engage fathers, also upcoming workshops that I will be facilitating to give people the tools they need to engage fathers more effectively… and just posts and blogs about what it is that we’re currently doing… if you’re interested in either thinking about replicating what we do and learning how to do what we do. We are open books. We’re just trying to figure out how can we get it out to the public. Visit us anytime, and we will have some interesting information for you.

Denver: You certainly will, and they can always contribute too.

Charles: Absolutely. Feel free to give us a donation if you choose.

Denver: Thanks, Charles. It was a real pleasure to have you on the show.

Charles: Thank you for having me.

Denver: I’ll be back with more of The Business of Giving right after this.

Charles Daniels and Denver Frederick


The Business of Giving can be heard every Sunday evening between 6:00 p.m. and 7:00 p.m. Eastern on AM 970 The Answer in New York and on iHeartRadio. You can follow us @bizofgive on Twitter, @bizofgive on Instagram and at www.facebook.com/BusinessOfGiving

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