Welcome to The Business of Giving. I’m your host, Denver Frederick.
Today, we have the pleasure of speaking with Susan Taylor Batten, President and CEO of ABFE: A Philanthropic Partnership for Black Communities. For over half a century, ABFE has been a driving force in promoting effective philanthropy within Black communities, striving to advance equity and justice in the philanthropic sector.
Susan shares the powerful story of ABFE’s bold beginnings at the 1971 Council on Foundations meeting—a pivotal moment that reshaped the landscape of philanthropy:
And so the act to present an alternative slate of candidates with Black professionals on it, over time, the business meeting came back together after the disruption, and five Black foundation executives were voted onto the board of the Council of Foundations.
In our conversation, we’ll explore ABFE’s current initiatives, such as the Racial Equity Advancement and Defense Initiative, efforts to increase funding for Historically Black Colleges and Universities, and strategies to retain Black professionals in philanthropy.
Join us for an enlightening discussion that not only traces ABFE’s impactful journey but also highlights the ongoing efforts to foster a more inclusive and equitable philanthropic landscape.
Denver: Susan Taylor Batten, Welcome to The Business of Giving.
Susan: Thank you. It’s great to be here.
Denver: ABFE has been advocating for effective philanthropy in Black communities for over 50 years. Tell us about the founding and how it all began.
Susan: Sure thing. So we were founded as the Association of Black Foundation Executives, and it’s an interesting story. I’ve got to share this story, Denver, about the founding act of the organization. So let me paint a picture for you. It is 1971, and we are at the business meeting, the annual meeting of the Council on Foundations.
And the council, as you may know, is a pretty large membership association of foundations in the United States and now, increasingly, across the world.
Denver: Right.
Susan: And we’re at the business meeting, and the agenda was at the point of identifying new board members for the organization.
So at that time, 1971, there was little to no diversity in the field of philanthropy. Matter of fact, as it relates to the council, there were no people of color on the board at that time. There were no people of color on the staff of the council at that time, and there weren’t really many people of color in the membership of the foundations that belong to the council and in the room that day, except for eight Black foundation executives who are all sitting in the front row waiting for this moment on the agenda.
And the business went forward to nominate some board members, new board members for the organization. And at that time, all eight Black foundation executives stood up and sort of walked to the stage and presented an alternative slate of candidates. And that slate had a number of names, all African Americans that worked in the field of philanthropy.
And this was a bit of a protest. It was a little bit of a disruption of…
Denver: Oh yeah. I can see that.
Susan: Yes, yes. Right? When everybody saw them all sitting in the front row, everybody sort of knew something was going to happen.
Denver: Some feathers are going to be ruffled here today.
Susan: That’s right. That’s right. And so the act to present an alternative slate of candidates with Black professionals on it, over time, the business meeting came back together after the disruption, and five Black foundation executives were voted onto the board of the Council of Foundations.
Denver: Wow.
Susan: That was the starting act of the organization itself. One of the persons voted onto the board at that time was Ambassador James Joseph, who went on to become the ambassador to South Africa.
Denver: Right.
Susan: And also became the founding board chair of ABFE. So 1971, that’s how it all started. And here we are over 50 years later.
Denver: I love that story. And you know what? If I didn’t know much about your organization, knowing your founding story, I now know a lot about your organization. You know what I mean?
Susan: That’s right. That’s right.
Denver: It really is. That’s the way you operate. It’s a…
Susan: Yes. Yes.
“So the mission of ABFE is to promote effective and responsive philanthropy in Black communities. And we have a framework that we offer to the field about what that looks like– effective and responsive philanthropy in Black communities. And really what it’s about is investing in Black communities in ways that build capacity and advocacy power in particular.”
Denver: And I see that with so many. People don’t understand, if you know the founding story, you know 85% of what you need to know about the organization, and that is a great founding story.
Over the last 50 years, how has the organization evolved, and how do you support Black communities today through philanthropy unlike you did when you first started?
Susan: Yeah. So the mission of ABFE is to promote effective and responsive philanthropy in Black communities. And we have a framework that we offer to the field about what that looks like– effective and responsive philanthropy in Black communities. And really what it’s about is investing in Black communities in ways that build capacity and advocacy power in particular.
And this is about… we often say, Denver, there’s a phrase in the field that we want to lift up giving that is about change, not just charity, right? And so, building advocacy and building power in Black communities to hold elected officials accountable, to hold school boards accountable, you name it, is the kind of investing that we want to see in the field of philanthropy.
So, from its inception, the work of ABFE has really been around networking. That’s a huge part of what we do because of the still little diversity in the field. It’s important for organizations like ours just to connect people of African descent across the sector.
So networking was really the way we started. But we began to move into research and advocacy, that research being about where funding was going, coming from US-based foundations, and the extent to which Black communities receive a share… Research about the opportunity for Black professionals to lead in the sector. So research became, over time, more of the work of the organization.
Most recently, and I’ve been the CEO now for 14 years here at ABFE, I brought with me a more intentional focus on philanthropic advising. And we do a lot of work advising foundation boards and staff and donors on our framework around Responsive Philanthropy in Black Communities, but also about the history of this country that often many folks have not had the opportunity to understand and know about– why policies and practices in this country have resulted in Black communities being in the conditions and shapes in which they are.
So our advising is lifting up history, but also, again, sharing thoughts and ideas about strategies that build political power and economic power in Black communities.
We also do a lot of, more recently, funder organizing. We organize meetings with foundation trustees, for example, organize meetings with foundation CEOs. So in addition to just networking, we’re doing a lot more, deeper organizing to move resources to Black communities.
Over time the impact, I would say a couple of things. One, we do know that retention is still critically important in a field that is not so diverse and inclusive. And we get the comments every day, Denver, about, “If it wasn’t for ABFE, I probably wouldn’t still be in this foundation. I probably would’ve left the sector.” So retention is one.
The other areas of impact were about influencing foundations to address issues of inequity and racial inequity in particular. And then, our trainings, our education is important there. But at the end of the day, the impact that we stand behind are additional dollars flowing to Black communities and Black-led nonprofit organizations in particular.
So those are some of the ways in which we talk about impact.
Denver: Yeah. Let’s touch on a couple of those. Let’s start with retention. I know you did a report called The Exit Interview.
Susan: Yeah.
Denver: Tell me why a lot of Black professionals are leaving the field and what are some of the things you’ve been able to do to mitigate that, and as you say, have some of them stay, who might otherwise not be here if it weren’t for you.
Susan: Yeah. The issues around inclusion are critically important. I always say that we don’t have a diversity issue in that Black talent isn’t coming into the sector. We see it every day. We see through our Connecting Leaders Fellowship program, for example, that identifies Black professionals in the field of philanthropy early on in their career in that sector. We see the talent coming in.
The challenge has been, Denver, the retention of Black staff. And you’re right, we did The Exit Interview report several years ago because we saw the pattern of Black program officers, in particular, leaving, and there wasn’t any data as to why.
And interviews with over a hundred current and former Black program officers in philanthropy found that many felt again, being isolated, being the only one that is responsible for talking about a whole community or a whole population is draining, and it’s traumatic.
Working in a sector that talks about investing in the most at-risk and vulnerable communities, but not moving money equitably to those communities is draining and traumatic; not seeing a career path to the C-suite for many Black professionals– draining and traumatic. So those are some of the reasons that came up in our research as to why Black program, particularly program officers, leave the field.
What we know to be important to retain them is back to the focus on networking and ensuring that Black professionals that are in the field, particularly those that are in foundations that do great work but are just not diverse, that those Black staff actually have connections to others.
And so our national convenings, our regional convenings, our fellowship program, are all important ways in which we try to keep people networked so they’ll stay in the field.
Denver: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that peer to peer is so important because I think often, those individuals feel like they’re the only one. And then the others who are sort of having the same kind of challenges, there’s a comradery from that.
And my observation, which is certainly not scientifically based, but I often see a lot of foundations who want to bring in Black executives, but they don’t want to change at all. They want to keep the organization exactly what it was. Well, you have to… not change a lot… but you got to change, you know what I mean?
Susan: You have to change. That’s right.
Denver: What’s the point of having a diverse point of view if you’re going to keep things exactly the way they were?
Susan: Yeah.
Denver: And it seems so foolish.
Susan: Yeah. I used to say, Denver, when philanthropy or foundations would talk about diversity initiatives… or any sector for that matter, I’d say: Let’s not focus on diversity initiatives; let’s focus on inclusion initiatives because that’s the critical piece that really is about organizational culture, and that’s what often drives folks that are diverse in non-diverse settings away.
So to your point, if you’re going to recruit diverse talent, you’ve got to really look at organizational culture.
Denver: Yeah.
Susan: And think about how that’s going to change in order to retain that talent. Yeah. Yeah.
Denver: Are you worried as it relates to diversity and beyond, that we’re having a snapback in this country, that after George Floyd and after every organization had an initiative along those lines? I’m sure that some of them have been pretty deep and very sincere.
I’m also probably aware enough to know that some of them were checking boxes. And those boxes now have been checked, so we can move on. What do you see in the work that you do? What’s going on?
Susan: Yeah, we do see, unfortunately, some rollback and retrenchment. And I think it goes exactly to your point that there was an onslaught of foundations, corporations, corporate giving…
Denver: Everybody.
Susan: …everybody, rushing to do the right thing. And many doing that without doing the deep work that’s necessary to actually make that work a part of an organization, a foundation’s DNA.
And so those that are falling by the wayside, and there are many that are falling by the wayside, I think those are the organizations that came along just to come along, so to speak, but perhaps didn’t see the real tie of investing in Black communities, investing in racial justice… to the mission of the organization.
So if you can’t tie investment strategies in racial justice or Black communities, communities of color to the mission of your organization, then it’s sort of surface. It’s not real work hardwired in the DNA of an organization. So we are concerned.
I worry that the rollback of, also what we call the racial justice funding cliff… we hear more and more from Black-led nonprofits, about the sort of reduction in grant making coming their way. And then with the more recent attacks, Denver, on anything DEI.
Denver: Oh yeah.
Susan: Foundations are influenced by that. And then you see additional sorts of rollbacks. I’m concerned that we will begin to see a drop in Black professionals in the field because of all these things. I’m concerned. Yeah.
Denver: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that probably some of them wanted to be that way. I think foundations also are very conservative. They’re afraid of their own shadow sometimes in terms of doing anything. So they just go into a… it’s supposed to be the risk capital of society, and too often it is anything but.
We talked about Responsive Philanthropy in Black Communities. It’s your RPBC initiative. Let’s talk about your READI initiative, which is Racial Equity Advancement and Defense. What prompted its creation, Susan, and what are the primary goals in advancing racial equity and justice within the philanthropic sector?
Susan: Yeah. Thank you for that. The Racial Equity Advancement and Defense Initiative really came about after the Supreme Court decision on affirmative action in 2023.
Denver: Yeah.
Susan: It was maybe two or three months before the decision came down that we knew at ABFE, along with a number of partners, the way in which it was going to go, given the makeup of the court, in terms of ideology and perspective in this moment. And it did just happen that way, where the court made a decision to say that race could not be used as a factor in college admissions.
And we were concerned that that was going to have a ripple effect in the field of philanthropy, the concern that foundations would begin to roll back on race being important in the areas of grant making and investment. So, we organized a four-part framework that makes up the initiative.
The first was to seed a legal defense fund. And this was one of two strategies, Denver, that was about legal defense because we know that there are a number of lawsuits around the country right now looking to dismantle anything that’s got a focus on Black communities or communities of color, specifically.
And we know that there are a number of nonprofits that may find themselves in the crosshairs of these lawsuits. And so a legal defense fund is now being seeded in partnership with Tides. And again, that’s for organizations that might need to tap for resources for legal support, but also cybersecurity and to do their own risk assessments.
The second strategy was to pull together a resource bank just to provide information to foundations and to nonprofit organizations about how to navigate in this climate of anti-DEI movement. And so we now have the beginnings of our resource, Vanguard Knowledge Center, right on our website.
Anyone can go on and find all the articles, the papers, the webinars that have been done to date…
Denver: All in one place.
Susan: …all in one place about how to navigate if you are concerned about diversity, equity, and inclusion, particularly in the philanthropic space… how to navigate in this time. That’s all in the resource bank. So that was the second part of the READI initiative.
The third was to put together a communications campaign that is directed at foundations in efforts to take back the narrative about why investing in racial equity and racial justice is important. We know that on every indicator of wellbeing, we see disparities based on race, whether or not you are a funder around health issues, education issues, welfare issues, you name it, we see disparities based on race. And so we’ve got to stand firm on investing in strategies that understand the ways in which communities of color are differently situated.
And so this narrative campaign, we’ve partnered with a group called RALLY Communications. It’s starting to roll out. And if you’re in a foundation, you will begin to hear more from us and our partners–Asian Americans in Philanthropy, Hispanics in Philanthropy, and Native Americans in Philanthropy. We are all partnering together on this communications campaign and the narrative, and the READI initiative more generally.
And then the last strategy is another legal support strategy. It’s been to organize resources to partner with the Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under the Law, who has expanded their pro bono capacity to provide legal support to nonprofits that might need it in this moment, as well as small foundations. Larger foundations have legal teams on staff, but small foundations do not.
Denver: Yeah.
Susan: So these four strategies, that’s what makes up the READI initiative, and we’re moving forward.
Denver: Yeah.
Susan: Forward.
“But last year, we released a major report on philanthropy and HBCUs… and found what we thought we would find, the huge disparities in terms of investments from US philanthropy going to predominantly white institutions versus historical Black colleges and universities. I think the gap was 172 times more funding goes to Ivy Leagues than historical Black colleges and universities.”
Denver: Well articulated, but also I think underscores the need for vigilance. Because no matter what things are like today ,and you think they may be okay at the moment, they’re not going to be that way tomorrow because this is the way things go.
Let’s turn our attention to HBCUs, historically Black colleges and universities, and I know that’s a key building block to generational wealth in Black communities. How do they drive economic mobility and community and development, and what are you guys doing to push for funding for HBCUs?
Susan: Sure. And I should say, full disclosure, I am a graduate of two historical Black colleges, and so you’ve got a huge champion and advocate for HBCUs.
Denver: Right. Well, let’s hear from the alum. Okay?
Susan: That’s right. That’s right. Well, historical Black colleges are themselves economic engines in the communities in which they’re located. They are employers. They are purchasers of goods and services. And so they themselves are economic engines. Many of them also house community development corporations that invest in affordable housing and the like. And that’s just the community work of HBCUs.
But historical Black colleges have, over the past hundred years, really been the top producers of Black doctors, Black lawyers, Black scientists. So when we think about the economic impact of HBCUs, we’ve got to think about the talent that they produce that ultimately builds wealth for Black families, as well as the role that they play in the communities in which they’re located.
Unlike other Black-led nonprofit organizations, thinking about HBCUs as a nonprofit now, they are underfunded. And this is both with public dollars as well as philanthropic dollars.
But last year, we released a major report on philanthropy and HBCUs, and this was the first report, Denver, that we know of that actually looked at the amount of grant making going to HBCUs from foundations in the United States, and found what we thought we would find: the huge disparities in terms of investments from US philanthropy going to predominantly white institutions versus historical Black colleges and universities. I think the gap was 172 times more funding goes to Ivy Leagues than historical Black colleges and universities. 172 times more funding!
And even when we did comparisons to say, okay, those are Ivy Leagues maybe. But if you look at predominantly white institutions and compare them to historical Black colleges and do more of an apples-to-apples comparison, where the schools are the same size, the same type in terms of two-year, four- year, whether or not they’re research institutions, you still saw a disparity in funding going from foundations in the US to HBCUs over predominantly white institutions.
So we know the critical role that HBCUs play in Black communities, and we are lifting this research up to say to the field: What are the strategies we can use to close the gap? And ultimately, if foundations are interested in investing in addressing the racial wealth divide and other issues around economic mobility for all people in this country, historical Black colleges are a strategic investment, and we’re making that case for the field.
Denver: Yeah. I think I read somewhere that the endowment of one of those Ivy League colleges is larger than all the HBCUs taken together…. at just one Ivy League college!
Do you find, Susan, when you lift up this research and you bring it in front of people, that it has the impact you would hope? Or is there more that needs to be done other than just showing them the numbers and the data and the history?
Susan: Yeah, no, I appreciate that, and it’s important because leading just with the data, I find, is not helpful actually, because people will make their own stories about why the data looks the way it does, or people will have their own assumptions about why things are the way that they are.
It’s critically important to frame first, again, the importance of these institutions, not just to Black communities, but to the country as a whole. That’s critically important. It’s also important to identify the structural reasons why we think philanthropy disproportionately impacts HBCUs or Black-led nonprofits.
Often, it’s not about bad, mean people sitting in foundations. It’s often about grant making guidelines that might proportionately disadvantage HBCUs, different ways in which foundations operate that may structurally be barriers to investing in HBCUs. So we want to lift up the barriers that can be fixed so that money will flow more freely.
And then the other thing that we have to do is talk about the fact that we believe this is doable and possible. There are foundations out there that are investing strategically with good resources to historical Black colleges. All that, Denver, needs to be a part of the story. So it’s not just the data, but it’s really these institutions are critically important to not just the Black community, but for everybody in this country.
And for a number of reasons, these are the barriers that we think stand in the way, and they’re fixable. Foundations can fix the structural barriers to why funding might be disproportionate and really raise the question of all the good work that’s going on with historical Black colleges. Just imagine what they could do if they had more. That’s really what we’re trying to lift up from folks.
Denver: Yeah. They’re pretty scrappy with not too much of what they’ve been able to accomplish, so they know how to leverage probably better than almost anybody else every dollar.
What you’re saying about the guidelines, I had Tonya Allen of McKnight on recently. She said, it gets down to rewriting the rules. These rules are written a hundred years ago and like they came down from the mount and they can’t be changed. But unless you rewrite those rules, you are going to eliminate a lot of people. The rules were probably written to eliminate people to start with.
Susan: Right.
Denver: But they haven’t been updated, and they really need to get a new coat of paint, so to speak.
Susan: Absolutely. And it’s one of the things that we do through our philanthropic advising with foundations. Let’s look at your grant making rules. Let’s look at your grant making policies, and let’s run them through, Denver, something we call the racial equity impact analysis.
Denver: Yeah. Yeah.
Susan: And so to see– unintentional often– how your grant making rules may screen out Latino communities, Black communities, Native communities, Asian communities. And often, it’s really an aha moment for folks when they carefully take the time to just look at the rules. And as Tonya said, my good friend, rewrite them.
Denver: Yeah, absolutely. And you have to ask yourself, why are the rules this way? I mean, that struck me in a completely different vein when I was running a lot in marathons and I had to have eight glasses of water. And I started looking to see why we needed to have eight glasses of water. Nobody knows. There’s no rule, you know? But it’s this myth of eight glasses of water.
Susan: Yes.
Denver: And I think sometimes when I’ve asked foundation executives about these, why is that? I don’t know. You know what I mean? But we just accept it as it is, and it does a disservice, a terrible one.
ABFE is teamed with groups like the Kresge Foundation, and Rip Rapson was on the show recently, on projects like the Diversity in Foundation Asset Management Pledge. Tell us a little bit about that and how you form these collaborations, and maybe what other things you have coming up.
Susan: Yeah. So, Rip Rapson was such a huge champion and advocate on the issue of diverse asset management in the field of philanthropy. So as mentioned at the top of our talk, ABFE is concerned about diversity in the field of philanthropy.
And when you really look at the wealth of foundations, it’s not sitting in the grant making budget or on the grant making side, it’s sitting in the endowment. That’s where the wealth is… of these foundations. And we asked a critical question, probably a good 10 years ago: Who’s managing the money? Who’s managing the money? And started a body of work, Denver, called Smart Investing.
And it was based on some research in the field, and I want to shout out the Knight Foundation in Miami that’s done a lot of this research.
Denver: They have, yeah.
Susan: Demonstrates that organizations or asset managers, asset management firms led by people of color do great jobs in managing endowments, often better jobs than predominantly white-led firms, yet manage less than 1% of the trillions of dollars under management in endowments in this country.
And so we asked the question: Why? And who’s managing the money? And also saw this as a way to lift up the need to build Black businesses. We have a real interest, as I said earlier, in investing to build economic power in Black communities. We are very concerned about the racial wealth divide in this country.
And economists… many economists say that the most strategic thing that we can do to address the racial wealth divide is to help scale Black businesses, to help build and scale Black businesses. So Black investment management firms– they exist, they’re smart, they do good work. They are not at all connected to the field of philanthropy, and when we look at the data… who’s managing foundation money.
And so we created a body of work to make that connection. And we kicked it off with a pledge to have a number of foundations publicly state that this was something of importance and met their values and principles around diversity and inclusion.
And Rip Rapson from Kresge was the first foundation CEO to sign that pledge that still exists on ABFE’s website. And we always are saying to folks: Please do make your commitment public to this. So this body of work is ongoing. We do have a number of sign-ons. That’s a strategy that we use, Denver, to demonstrate ABFE’s principles and values and get philanthropy to sign on, to demonstrate their alignment.
We’ve got one coming out soon around building and expanding Black portfolios at community foundations, many that have popped up over several years. We’re concerned now about the sustainability of those funds, and we’re about to have a call to action, particularly for the community foundation sector to sign on to that cause.
So that’s one of the things that’s coming up in terms of the similar tool that we use to smart investing. Yeah.
Denver: I love what you say about closing the racial wealth gap because they’re never going to do it working for somebody else, you know?
Susan: Yeah, yeah.
Denver: They are going to do it by starting businesses, and I know that you know Annie E. Casey is a big champion of that… and a number of others, and that’s just a wonderful initiative.
The Black Women in Philanthropy Leadership Retreat is a remarkable initiative. Can you share insights into its evolution and the lessons learned about the unique challenges and opportunities Black women face in philanthropy?
Susan: Yeah, this is a body of work near to my heart. We celebrated our 10th anniversary of the Black Women in Philanthropy Retreat last year. And I think the common theme here is diversity and inclusion.
About 10 years ago, there were about six or seven Black foundation CEOs and vice presidents who were looking to find each other, and looking for ways in which they could form a peer community and opportunity for rest, number one, and to talk about what it meant to lead in these organizations.
And so we kicked off our first retreat. And it was interesting, Denver, 10 years ago, it was difficult to get Black women to come to something that was designed just for them around recognizing their leadership in the field, their accomplishments, and to rest… the importance of rest.
And I think it’s just because of who we are, Black women have always been at the front of… whether it’s social justice movements, movements for the Black community, movements for broader communities, the women’s movement and the like. And the thought of rest, of what we call radical rest, is something that just wasn’t as popular 10 years ago as it is today.
Because over time, I think we got maybe 15 women the first year. Over time… our relationship to rest, and particularly rest for Black women, again, who lead in so many sectors, who are the unfortunate butts of racism, microaggressions, I think the current presidential campaign has lifted up for so many of us the many ways in which Black women are characterized, criticized, and it’s just a part of our leadership and what we have to manage and deal with.
And over time, this retreat in particular, has become so popular. As I said, 10 years ago, I think we had 15 women. This year, we had 97. Last year was over a hundred. It’s the thing at ABFE that sells out the quickest because there are so many Black women leading in the sector, and I think we now have a different relationship with rest. I think we have a different understanding of the ways in which we are impacted by racism and sexism, that we are deserving of such a place, and our retreat provides that. Yeah.
Denver: And in some ways, it’s near to a bit of a conversation I had with the founder of GirlTREK. And she was saying that the biggest challenge that she encountered was that Black women really have no concept of self-care.
Susan: Yeah. Yeah.
Denver: She said it really gets back to the family, you know? I mean, they hold everything together. They do the cooking, and they do this…. And this idea of going for a walk and taking care of yourself, it was like a foreign language. And it takes a while that… and this is another side of that same mindset of: I help everyone, I support everyone, and I’m the last always on the list to do something for myself. Yeah.
Susan: That’s right. That’s right. And this retreat provides, it’s not just philanthropy talk. We are talking about our family roles, right? We’re talking about our roles in community. Oh, and also that we lead billion-dollar foundations.
Denver: That too.
Susan: All of that comes into play. Yes.
Denver: Well, philanthropy wasn’t your initial path, but helping runs in your family. How’s that shaped your leadership at ABFE, Susan, and what experience has really fueled your passion?
Susan: Wow, you’re right. Helping is a part of my family. My dad was a public educator in Brooklyn, New York for 40-some-odd years. And when he wasn’t teaching, he was running youth centers at night. My mom was a community health nurse, and for about 30 years in Long Island, New York, both of my sisters were teachers. And also my sisters were very, very active in social justice and racial justice.
And so I think I got the helping profession side from my entire family, but I think my sisters had a big impact in terms of my interest in racial justice and social justice. I just believe, Denver, that that’s what we’re here to do, given my family background. We are here to help and support others. And so that’s been my… I think a constant theme throughout my career. I’m a social worker by training, so that should be no surprise. Yeah.
Denver: And you love strategy because you got 90 of them going on, I’ll tell you that.
Susan: Yes. Yes. I do love strategy. Trying to fix big, big problems is something that interests me. And the social work track was because I just got very interested in terms of fixing and addressing and public systems that really aimed to help families, but often hurt them because of broken policy and broken practice. Yeah.
“I think all the work that we do shapes the broader field of philanthropy… We want opportunity for all people and better outcomes for everybody. But people are differently situated in this country, and so we’ve got to figure out strategies that work for each population group. And I think that’s what we’re doing at ABFE.”
Denver: Absolutely. Finally, Susan, as you look to the future, how do you see ABFE’s work shaping the broader landscape of philanthropy and in Black communities in particular? What does your crystal ball tell you? What are the trends?
Susan: Oh goodness. I think all the work that we do shapes the broader field of philanthropy. I am very influenced by the scholar John Powell at UC Berkeley, who advances a framework called Targeted Universalism.
And basically, in a nutshell, it suggests that universally, we want better outcomes for everybody, for everybody. We want opportunity for all people and better outcomes for everybody. But people are differently situated in this country, and so we’ve got to figure out strategies that work for each population group. And I think that’s what we’re doing at ABFE.
And what many folks are doing in support of Black communities or Latino communities, or Asian communities, or white communities, is really focusing in on the need for targeted strategies because of the very specific experiences and situations that targeted communities find themselves in, because universally, we want better outcomes for everybody.
And so I believe our work at ABFE is about a better America, a vision for this country where everybody does well. And I want to spend my time, Denver, translating those lessons to the broader philanthropic community as much as I can.
Denver: Yeah. It’s pretty impossible to improve your yard and not help the entire community.
Susan: Yes. Yeah. I like that. I like that. Yes.
Denver: For listeners who would like to learn more about ABFE, become a member, financially support your work, tell us about your website and the kind of information they’ll find there.
Susan: Yes, www.abfe.org. You’ll find all the information about our programs, special initiatives, our staff and board, if you want to make individual connections with folks you might know. But also, most importantly, that membership tab. That membership tab has a dropdown and will share information about how you can become a member of this amazing organization.
Denver: Well, it is amazing, and it all starts there. And I want to thank you so much for being here today, Susan. It was a real pleasure and delight to have you on the program.
Susan: Thank you so much, Denver. Appreciate it.
Denver Frederick, Host of The Business of Giving serves as a Trusted Advisor and Executive Coach to Nonprofit Leaders. His Book, The Business of Giving: New Best Practices for Nonprofit and Philanthropic Leaders in an Uncertain World, is available now on Amazon and Barnes & Noble.